I started a new job yesterday and was aghast to read that the dress code required me to wear pantyhose if I was going to wear a dress. Admittedly, I am young (24) and I have never thought of pantyhose as something that someone would willing torture themselves with. My first experience with pantyhose left me completely disillusioned; i was 12 and was ecstatic to wear my first pair; because I thought they made me grown up. Twenty minutes later, in the blistering New Orleans heat, I went into the bathroom and took them off. Never again.
I know that men must wear ties, and I think that's pretty silly too. In fact, I can promise that if I were a man I would wear clip on ties. But at lease there is such a thing! I have heard of "spray on pantyhose", but I am fairly certain my employer would not consider that the real thing. I do not know the reasons why men decided to tie fabric around their necks and call it professional, but I do know that making your legs look better is the main reason that women wear pantyhose. What is wrong with my legs that I need to cover them in nylon? Maybe men should be made to wear pantyhose over their faces because I decide that their natural face is disgusting.
The more I think on this matter, the more I angry I become. It is sexist, but not just to women. Why can't a man wear a skirt if he wants to? Why can't a man wear earrings when I can? Even if the dress code did allow me to wear a skirt sans pantyhose, it would still be sexist. In fact, all dress codes are sexist because they dictate my dress based on my gender; i think this should be contentious for both men and women. To me, this is a matter of blatant discrimination, and I am surprised that this is not a matter that receives more attention.
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I don't remember where I read it, but I once saw the "professional" dress code attributed to the employee signifying that they would suppress their individuality to be a team player and do what the employer wants. Culturally, we associate suits (ties, etc) with a level of formality, professionalism, and maturity. It sets the stage for interactions between someone in "street wear" and a suit. It reinforces class and privilege and gender and all sorts of things that are part of the workplace but are not ideal.
Obviously men are being forced into a certain mold - though there are few places in society where men can we earrings or a skirt. However, I think women's business attire is worse since it compromises between the professionalism mentality and the sexuality of women's clothing. Suits are men's clothing; women's business attire often is "feminine" in some way - frills, a skirt, the cut, etc. Dress codes for men and women require normative gender roles, but women's dress codes often imply beauty standards - like the nylons.
I'm privileged to be in academia where I can pretty much wear what I want. I hate conferences and talks where I can't wear jeans and must navigate an extremely male-dominated environment. I've compromised with dress slacks, doc martin shoes, and button down shirts or blazers.
Neckties come crom cravats which were worn during the 30 Years War by Croat mercenaries wore them and then the French dug the style. Interestingly when they spread to France they were popular with both men and women.
Eventually the color or pattern of a neck-tie became associated with the colors of a family or national crest, this extended to school/political affiliation/trade.
So men wearing neck-ties really do have a professional pedigree; at least in the sense that if you were a tradesman you wore a color or pattern to indicate your guild of affiliation.
Hose are just dumb, unless you wear them for some medical reason (I'm led to believe they can help with varicose veins).
I did wear stocking hose when I was in the Army to prevent blisters (they ease friction between boot and foot really really well); and was advised to do so by a Drill Sergeant (I'm a fella and he's a fella, btw).
"Hose are just dumb, unless you wear them for some medical reason (I'm led to believe they can help with varicose veins)."
How about hose-colored dance tights to
(a) hide leg hair stubble growing back (like a 5 o'clock shadow, but on my legs at 10 am instead of a guys's face at 5 pm)
and
(b) stay a bit warmer if it's cold out
?
Pantyhose don't even make your legs look good is the silly thing! They never match your skintone and the black ones look weird imo
A year ago my boss, a woman emailed everyone in our group the corporate dress code. She said that we weren't actually held to the dress code (because we are and engineering group not executives) but she thought it would be a good guide. We are a pretty casual group, I am the only woman in the group beside my boss and dress for the men in the group ranges from khakis to jeans to cargo pants and polos to dress shirts to T-shirts without writing. Some times I dress up, sometimes I where polos sometimes I where knit, solid color tops. I never wear sleeveless anything. I looked over the dress code and saw that I hadn't violated anything in it (although some of my male colleges had worn stained or ripped clothing, as previously stated, engineers). My boss came and asked me to come and speak to her in her office. She proceeded to tell me that sometimes when I got cold I would she could see my nipples through my shirt and that some of my tops were a little to low cut. 1) I keep a sweater in my cubicle because our building is either boiling or freezing and it change if you go to a different room so it is hard to be completely comfortable and if I was comfortable in my cube and I go to a meeting it might get a lot colder. 2)There was not an HR person there because all the HR people are ladies and they where a lot of low-cut, sleeveless stuff and I don't think any of them would have been able to be on her side. 3)I am kind of big in the bust department and I always where a bra but I don't where padded bras because I don't need/want to be any bigger.
She finished the meeting by telling me that she didn't want people to think of me as the girl that wears inappropriate tops but instead as a good engineer.
This was the single worst thing I have ever experienced as a female engineering int he Aerospace Industry.
My advice: Don't wear the pantyhose. If they tell you to put them on say that you are wearing them and then if they argue with you say that you are uncomfortable will the attention that they are giving to your legs.
Haha...I like the part about just saying you ARE wearing them!! Are they going to make you pull up your skirt to prove it!
Also, another thing about "professional attire dress codes" is that its such a wide range for women. For men its pretty cut and dry: suit, tie, etc., for women, its like: is this sweater dressy enough, are these slacks the right color, does this skirt have the right cut? So glad I work on a farm. I wear a t-shirt and riding pants and own like one nice outfit for going out!
To me telling an engineer to wear specific clothes for anything other that practical purposes is abhorrent.
I even think that the socialisation women undergo with regard to clothing – emphasising looking good/proper – is dissuading many girls from engineering or physical sciences. If you look at the boys in these disciplines they have a practical mindset which is represented in their personal dress code. Unconsciously I think many girls see that the dress code expected of them is not consistent with the engineering discipline.
Perhaps there is even an element of training women's thought patterns. If you are taught to value aesthetics over practicality then you are less likely to go into engineering or the physical sciences. The enrolment numbers at universities would support this theory.
Holy shit. I'm pretty sure there'd be some expletives coming out of my mouth if I EVER heard something like that out of my boss.
I'm definitely lax with wearing bras, both at school and to work, because ... I hate them. They're itchy, feel restrictive, and leave marks (yes, even the ones that "fit"). When I do wear them, they're the very first thing to come off when I get home. I can't wear them more than 8 hours at a time. I refuse.
Really. I would have told your boss to piss off. You're an intelligent, valuable person with a good mind and really shouldn't have to answer to anyone about your appearance or your boobs - the size of which you can't control, anyway. It annoys the shit out of me that nipples are now considered obscene in the way that naked breasts used to be (and apparently sometimes still are, if one considers all the whining about public breastfeeding). I'll wear what I want to wear, what's appropriate, and expect people to do their jobs and quit frickin' staring at my tits.
Exactly. It also, I think, perpetuates the idea that our bodies are only there for men's sexual needs, so if any little part of us shows "more than it should," we are ASKING for attention. Like the male gaze is so uncontrollable that we have to make sure our nipples don't show through our shirts, because we will just MAKE men think of sex, and it's all our fault because if we MAKE men think of sex we are such sluts! We must always actively prevent our bodies from inciting men's NATURAL lust or we are whores!
*Vomit*
In conclusion, it's also another way that we are told that we should constantly be hiding when in public. Like we need any more of that shit.
Oh yeah, and how many times have you seen a guy's balls or penis totally poke through his dress slacks? For me, I would say a million. But I don't treat them with less respect because they have protruding balls.
How do you treat guys you want to have amazing sex with?
I hate pantyhose too. I guess you could just always wear slacks, like the men do.
Or maybe not. My first "professional" job as a temp in an insurance office had a dress code where women were required to wear only skirts (but could wear khakis or slacks on Fridays). We were also required to wear hose.
It was hell. I wore them for the first month, then started cheating and only wore them if I had a skirt that was above my knees. No one noticed. But I did get called to task for wearing skorts once.
Besides dress codes like the one you mentioned being sexist, they're totally old-fashioned. Pantyhose aren't even in now! If they're going to worry about the company's image reflected by the employees, you'd think the employers would want to look put together and stylish. They might as well be telling you to wear polyester flower-printed tops and platform boots with fish in them.
Like someone else said, you could wear pants. But if you wear skirts or dresses more often, especially in the warmer weather, maybe cotton tights is an option. They look nice, are more stylish, and are breathable. Or you can just use the spray-on hose and pretend you're wearing real hose. The only way anyone is going to tell that you're not really wearing it is if they touch your legs, which would be harassment.
Hose are definitely not in anymore. So strange! You know, even in just one generation everything changes. My mom still wears hose and slips all the time. I don't own either, and I live in skirts and sundresses all summer!
Oh no! Not pantyhose!
Seriously, I hate them. I haven't worn them in years. Now I do wear tights in the winter because hot pink or bright purple legs are AWESOME! But pantyhose makes me sick!
I have a dear friend whose pantyhose ran while we were on our way to a wedding and she started to panic. I told her that she just shouldn't wear them, that they were nothing more than uncomfortable. She responded that it wouldn't be proper for her, a proper southern lady, to attend a southern wedding without them. I shot her a look and told her that there was nothing proper about wearing pantyhose to an outside wedding when it was 90 degrees outside.
She ended up not wearing them that day, and later asked me later if anyone had said anything about her for not wearing them. She really liked nekkid legs (but was worried that someone would think her "improper" I guess).
Now to work on the rest of her "proper southern gentlewoman" issues.
Ugh...the "proper southern gentlewomen" issues...
Being someone who was born in Alabama and raised in Kentucky, I've been fighting my mom's definition of femininity for the past 20 years. This includes the dreaded panty hose. We've had fights with her just about every Sunday (when my parents drag me to church...thank god for college freedom)since I was 5 because I don't understand why they are "necessary." Maybe in the winter when it's really cold, but then I just wear pants. No one would notice anyways!!!
Now if only she would get it through her head that I will not get married until I'm 30 and I refuse to have my own children! (again, thank god for adoption!!)
A decade ago I was working as a temp at a corporate financial office for my summer job. One day I wore a just-below knee length skirt and I was told that I had to wear hose if I wore a skirt because if I didn't wear them, the men at the office would be too distracted to do their jobs.
It's laughable imagining that somehow a teenager's non-panyhosed lower leg could cause the workday of the whole institution to grind to a halt. But just add the hose and miraculously all the middle aged white guys were able to control their sexual fantasies enough to do their jobs. Completely inane and absolutely disgusting.
Let's just say I was glad when the summer ended and I had the luxury of returning to school.
If there's an issue just say "they give me yeast infections". Trust me, they'll never ask again :)
I LOVE this idea.
:D
In answer to the question 'why do men where ties?'
I once watched a documentary on the history of the tie. Basically it boils down to this. The tie is how, as a man, you get to express your personality. That is the only way you are allowed to deviate from the black, blue or grey business suit.
Personally I hate ties. They are a completely impractical garment with no practical purpose, and I get a choking reflex. Last year I wore a tie thrice. Once at my graduation, once at my brother's wedding and once at a fancy dress party with an 80's theme.
Personally I strive for a universal dress code where we can all dress neatly in clothes that are practical but expressive. I like colours, and as a man I often get quite frustrated trying to shop for clothes that are simultaneously colourful and neat.
As for your dilemma with the pantihose, I agree the rules are stupid. Pantihose are a similarly impractical garment to a tie. High heeled shoes are even further down the sliding scale. I suggest you wear pants. It seems that, from your description, at least you have that option.
where = wear (Ugh, what an embarrassing grammatical error.)
"Personally I hate ties. They are a completely impractical garment with no practical purpose, and I get a choking reflex. Last year I wore a tie thrice. Once at my graduation, once at my brother's wedding and once at a fancy dress party with an 80's theme."
That reminds me of a bit I read about Mandela not wearing ties, from "Aw, c'mon, you don't really believe those Aids myths?" by Donald G McNeil Jr., Daily Mail & Guardian (Johannesburg) June 11, 1999:
"...They're un-African - aw, c'mon. If you can use a cellphone, a ballpoint pen or paper money and still be African, you can use a condom.
"I like umqomboti (traditional home-brewed beer) - up to a point. Be flexible. The dumbest Western invention in history is the necktie, a portable noose. It's about as African as a moon shot, and yet the 'African renaissance' men here wear it as a uniform. Only Mandela, in his shirts, is a lone Adam's apple crying in the wilderness - the long gulp to freedom. But the fashion looks ready to die with him. I do wish people would stop telling Madiba to shut up..." (emphasis added)
I really like the point you made about dress codes themselves being sexist and based on gender. This brings to mind my high school graduation.
One of my best friends is trans, and he was not allowed to wear the male "colored robe" and instead had to wear the female color. (He petitioned the school and they compromised that he could at least wear pants underneath, which was something, but still not enough).
Every girl had to wear a light dress or skirt under their robes, and boys had to wear a suit type outfit underneath. The rule was so enforced that many girls including myself, had to go out and buy a new outfit that we did not have the money for just so we could graduate.
Does it really matter what color we wear or whether we want to wear pants or dresses? How does the reflect on us as people or the importance of the event? I understand dress codes for the purpose of keeping people from running around naked or with hateful slogans on, but the extent where pantyhose or what have you is required? That is just ridiculous, and places too much value upon our clothing and not enough on our personality.
When you wear a skirt
you should wear the panty hose
pulled over your head.
That's really strict of your employer. Is there a way you could petition to get it changed, at least the hose?
It's stuff like that that makes me glad that I work in an office where the upper management is 4/5th (literally!) women. They wouldn't require hose to be worn.
Yeah, I would really complain to someone or petition someone about that. There's no f'n way I'd put pantyhose on for anyone. I just so much abhor dress codes because ... (1) People at a job are supposed to be doing their jobs, not frickin' staring at and judging everybody's else's bodies; (2) Aren't my mind and intelligence and skills and experience even a bit more important than my appearance? A bit? Doesn't my brain trump my body when the tasks we're trying to accomplish require BRAINpower, not "beauty" or pleasantries of appearance?
I know that latter is still way too much to ask of this world, apparently.
Ugh. I actually like wearing stockings sometimes but I abhor hose. They never do anything other than make me feel itchy, sweaty and fat. --Which is ridiculous seeing as I still don't weigh enough to donate blood. (That broke my little heart in high school, I was desperate to escape AP Literature for the day)
I've found anyway, that hose tends to draw more attention to your legs and be more distracting. I like "they give me a yeast infection" idea.
oh my gosh, I should so say that the next time the old ladies at my church ask me why I don't have on pantyhose. That would really make them freak
Sorry, I'm not American, what exactly are pantyhose? Are they the same as tights? Or are they more like stockings?