SO I've been reading the feminist blogosphere lately, getting a refreshing dose of feminist opinions and ideas from other women on different topics, we don't always agree but we all call ourselves feminists.
But how do you reconcile the disagreement over deeply feminist ideals?
Is it ok to be feminist but think an abortion is killing your child?
Is it ok to be feminist and absolutely adore your father and be not so close with your mother?
Is it ok to be feminist and thin or a "fat" feminist who not only wants to be smaller but actively doing things to be smaller while feminism preaches acceptance of our bodies and destigmitizing plus sized bodies?
Is it ok to be feminist and a heterosexual cis-gendered wife?
Is it ok to be feminist and a stay at home heterosexual cis-gendered mother?
Is it ok to be feminist and secretly hope your child (future or born) grows into a cis-gendered, heterosexual, highly financially and corporately successful adult?
There are women who are pro-choice, pro-equality, pro-equal pay, pro-gay marriage, pro freedom of religion (or not to be religious at all), pro-environment, pro-gressive and yet they prefer to lead their own lives is very traditional ways that clash with the feminist ideals. Can these women still be called feminists without contradicting themselves or feminism as a whole?
What are your thoughts?


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I think you (you from here on out being a universal 'you', not the poster) can have any of these sorts of lifestyles and still be a feminist, so long as you have educated yourself as much as possible about the debates surrounding these issues, and thought deeply about the life you live, the beliefs you hold, and their potential consequences. If you have done that and find that traditional marriages, or being against abortion, etc., is consistent with your version of feminism, then all the more power to you - and please, share with others how you have come to this belief, it may expand the discussions we're having as feminists.
I think the real problem comes when people just resort to 'well I want to do it so I'm gonna do it!' I think we all need some amount of self-reflexivity, and we all need to question our beliefs and be open to changing them. But that questioning will presumably not lead all of us to the same place.
Is this a joke? WTF is a "feminist lifestyle"?
With the possible exception of number one (though I wouldn't feel comfortable having an abortion, I'd never say someone else "killed her baby") and number five (I no longer stay at home with my daughter while my husband works, though I used to), all these fit me. None of them remove the anger I feel at the situation in the Congo, silence the rants I give to my husband and friends on the commoditization of women's bodies, erase my signature from petitions and letters to newspapers and my representatives, or absent me from the GLBT pride marches and GLBT groups I've been in. They don't take the Dworkin off my bookshelf, they don't unfriend me from my lesbian and trans sisters, they don't make me forget the rapes and abuses and catcalls which could have easily have happened to me as to my friends and family and women I don't even know. They don't make me any less aware that to most people I'm a woman first and a person second (if at all).
Are you seriously suggesting that I'm less of a feminist because I'm not sexually attracted to women, or because I primarily identify with "woman" genderedness? Or because I'm THIN? (Seriously, that's a new one.) Or because I recognize all the extra bullshit which would be heaped on my daughters if they were lesbian or transgendered?
By setting up a "gatekeeper" system like that, you'd only be making a new sort of "woman" which we have to adhere to in order to be accepted and recogized as thinking, self-aware persons. Fuck moving goal-posts; I'm pissed off that I'm expected to play that game in the first place.
#1 is the only one that is problematic for a feminist. As we've discussed on this site many times, being a feminist REQUIRES you to be pro-choice. You can think abortion is horrible and wrong - as long as you don't try to restrict other women from making their own decisions. Because you can't be a feminist and be in favour of putting restrictions on female body autonomy. That's the opinion of the majority I think.
The rest though? I don't see what's wrong with any of those things. Including being a stay at home heterosexual cis-gendered mother. There's nothing wrong with that decision.
This whole post is treading on dangerous ground. It seems like another in a long string of posts implying that being a feminist means you must adhere to a very strict definition which (in my opinion) is even MORE restrictive then society already is. That's not feminism to me.
Right on!
It's perfectly fine to be/do any and all of those things. What is *not* feminist is denying any woman the right to choose what she feels or does.
One of your statements, however, can lead to contention: "Is it ok to be feminist and secretly hope your child (future or born) grows into a cis-gendered, heterosexual, highly financially and corporately successful adult?"
But I think that many parents want their children to have an not-difficult, secure life. What would be un-feminist would be raising a child to not accept anyone but cis-gendered, heterosexual, and successful. If we work on raising our children to be accepting and to understand equality, then parents needn't worry about their children being not accepted or seen as not equal (but that is an entirely other issue).
My answer is "yes," but a guarded one. I think that a lot of it involves one's motivation behind each belief. To pick out your last question as an example:
>> Is it ok to be feminist and secretly hope your
>> child (future or born) grows into a cis-gendered,
>> heterosexual, highly financially and corporately
>> successful adult?
Why is the hypothetical person hoping this? There is certainly the simple truth that being cis, het and upper class makes life much, much easier. While it does not guarantee happiness and I am definitely not saying it's necessary for happiness, I can't imagine a good parent who wants their child to have a more difficult life. But if the person's desire to have a cis, heterosexual child is motivated by some lingering degree of homophobia, then it's probably time to reevaluate.
Another question to ask is, is the person trying to impose those beliefs on others? If I am skinny, am I going around telling other women that they, too, can be beautiful and love their bodies, if only they lose 30 pounds? If I am fat and dieting, am I also going around telling other women that they, too, can be beautiful and love their bodies if only they diet with me?
"There are women who are pro-choice, pro-equality, pro-equal pay, pro-gay marriage, pro freedom of religion (or not to be religious at all), pro-environment, pro-gressive and yet they prefer to lead their own lives is very traditional ways that clash with the feminist ideals. Can these women still be called feminists without contradicting themselves or feminism as a whole?"
I am a staunch feminist who is a mother in a hetrosexual marriage. Being a feminist is about allowing other women to have the choice to be what they want to be, to the fullest of their potential, supporting those choices and rebuking those who want to curb those choices, whether it be control of our bodies, our minds or our potential. That is my opinion.
Feminists cannot be uniform. We are all women, and we are all different. If we all thought the same then, to me, there would be something very strange in that.
I thought I would answer these, IMHO. Everyone has different ideas, I would imagine. Some of these are a bit ridiculous. I've never heard anyone say thin women or heterosexual housewives can't be feminists.
Is it ok to be feminist but think an abortion is killing your child?
Yes, as long as you don't support getting the government involved telling women THEY can't have an abortion just because YOU think it's killing your child. Plenty of feminists don't like abortion and would never have one.
Is it ok to be feminist and absolutely adore your father and be not so close with your mother?
Yes.
Is it ok to be feminist and thin or a "fat" feminist who not only wants to be smaller but actively doing things to be smaller while feminism preaches acceptance of our bodies and destigmitizing plus sized bodies?
Of course thin women can be feminist just like every other body type. As for being "fat" and wanting to lose weight... Yes, if you feel you would be comfortable if you lost weight it's not anti-feminist. If it has nothing to do with your comfort and health or you just wanting to be thinner and is just because you want to conform to society's "ideal" that's not feminist, but it doesn't mean you can't be a feminist.
Is it ok to be feminist and a heterosexual cis-gendered wife?
Is it ok to be feminist and a stay at home heterosexual cis-gendered mother?
Yes on both. Of course as with any choice it's not feminist if you want to force it on other people.
Is it ok to be feminist and secretly hope your child (future or born) grows into a cis-gendered, heterosexual, highly financially and corporately successful adult?
Depends on your reasoning. If it's because you realize the kind of discrimination they would face if they weren't, you could still be a feminist. Of course you should also support ending that discrimination. If it's because you think there's something wrong or inferior about being gay or transgendered, no. That wouldn't be feminist IMO.
Personally I think if you don't support forcing your choices on everyone else you can do or be most anything and still be a feminist.
I wish I was more surprised by this than I am.
What are my thoughts on whether or not women who make "unfeminist lifestyle choices" can still be considered feminists? I think that when other women judge each other over these issues, it scares many people who would otherwise be active in, and identify with the movement, away from describing themselves or thinking of themselves as feminists.
It took me years to actually identify with feminism because when I did try to get involved I was basically told "you're not feminist enough, ditch the eyeliner, the boyfriend and the razor. Then we'll talk." I know that isn't all feminism is, but I don't know how many other people know that. Nothing gets accomplished for the movement when one group of feminists judges the shit out another group for their "lifestyle choices".
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and if one feminist wants to judge another on her choices, I guess they are entitled to that. Just as the other person reserves the right to judge them right back as a judgmental, intolerant jerk.
A "feminist lifestyle"? Creating some sort of proscribed lifestyle plan that all feminists have to conform to is basically the same as being told that we have to conform to traditional gender norms. It's just putting women into a different box.
Some of these are just ridiculous. Why would my body size or my sexual preferences (both of which I have little or no control over) exclude me from calling myself a feminist?
i dont think anyone said ti better than this quote here:
A feminist is a person who answers "yes" to the question, "Are women human?" Feminism is not about whether women are better than, worse than or identical with men. And it's certainly not about trading personal liberty - abortion, divorce, sexual self-expression - for social protection as wives and mothers, as pro-life feminists propose. It's about justice, fairness, and access to the broad range of human experience. It's about women consulting their own well-being and being judged as individuals rather than as members of a class with one personality, one social function, one road to happiness. It's about women having intrinsic value as persons rather than contingent value as a means to an end for others: fetuses, children, the "family," men. (Katha Pollitt)
An idea of certain feminist lifestyle is a bit absurd.
I think that anyone can be a feminist, but there are (what I think are) contradictions to the lifestyle and the label. Thing is, these are so rare it doesn't even matter. Hell, some ideas that popped into my head probably don't exist. A few examples:
A feminist who believes men should be the head of the household, in every house around the world.
A feminist who believes that a fetus is more important than the woman it is in, who is thought of as an incubator during the pregnancy.
A feminist who victim blames.
A feminist who believes that women are superior to men and that men should be slaves to women.
A feminist who believes that in order to fulfill the whole "equality" thing, women must stop liking and doing anything feminine and be just like men.
A feminist who constantly nags at fat people to lose weight because they don't want to have to look at fat people.
A feminist who believes only one race deserves equal treatment. (I'm looking at you, dead first wavers.)
If somebody believes any of these things, they can still be a feminist, they just might raise quite a few eyebrows. I mean, there is so much to feminism that you can't make a checklist, and nobody knows just how to solve human inequalities. I'm a skinny, bisexual cis woman that lives a heterosexual lifestyle, wears make-up and dresses, plays violent video games, and poses for my fiance in lingerie. Am I any less feminist than Gloria Steinem?
One more thing, If feminism preaches acceptance of ALL body types, why the fuck must my feminist card be revoked just because my metabolism burns calories faster than fire burns paper?
No, but most of these ideas go against feminism.
"A feminist who believes men should be the head of the household, in every house around the world.
A feminist who believes that women are superior to men and that men should be slaves to women."
Feminism is about gender EQUALITY. Both of these are "ideas" are against the main tenets of feminism.
"A feminist who believes that a fetus is more important than the woman it is in, who is thought of as an incubator during the pregnancy."
This is not only extremely disturbing but anti feminist.
The other "ideas" were also disturbing, but not to the degree of those three. Side note-Please don't say "heterosexual lifestyle." There is no such thing nor is there a "gay lifestyle."
Of course
it's called CHOICE
as long as you aren't trying to force me to have a child, stay home, only love my father, and tell me who and how I can love or fuck
then
yes, of course
it's called CHOICE.
yes to all of the above
heres the thing I think a lot of people don't get about feminism, there is no right way to be a feminist. Yes there are certain ideals that generally speaking the overwhelming majority of feminists believe. But those things are as follows:
1. you need to accept that each and every woman has the right to do what she wishes with her body (this covers all reproductive choices including having an abortion)
2. You need to accept that no one can tell you or another woman how to live her life and what she is allowed to hope for herself and her loved ones
with that being said let me answer each of those questions individually
1. not everyone is going to agree over everything, and sometimes you just have to learn to argue about the topic and share your opion but agree to disagree with some people if there is no way to change their minds
2. yes you can think that abortion is killing your child, the point of being prochoice is for there to be a choice, some women will never agree that abortion is right and okay, but as a feminist you also have to understand that just because abortion is the wrong choice for you it is the right choice for others and they need to be able to obtain that service if they deem it necessary
3. yes it is okay. Not all feminists get along with their mothers, some mothers hate that their daughters are feminists and the fathers encourage the choices that they make based on that
4. Feminists come in all shapes and sizes. A feminist can want to lose weight for reasons that actually compliment their feminists choices (they want to take control over their own health ect.) are all reasons to want to lose weight feminist? of course not but there are some and some women like being able to embrace that
5. and 6. I'm answering these two questions together because the answer is the same. Feminism is all about women making the decisions about their lives that are right for them. You don't have to be a lesbian to be a feminist, because your sexual orientation has nothing to do with your personal beliefs about the way the world needs to be.
7. yeah its okay because while we may fight against all of the injustices that the opposite of this causes we want our children to take the path of least resistence and as much as we fight for the day when making the opposite decisions is going to be equally acceptable that day is not here yet and we don't want our children to be hurt. But you must also as a feminist accept that if they do not turn out like that there is nothing wrong with them, and that their choices are accepted and not judged by their parents.
8. again being a feminist means leading your life in the way that works best for you and accepting that all different lifestyles are okay as long as that is what is working for the individual woman
More good points!
Re: #1
I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I do think it's possible to be pro-life and opposed to legalized abortion while remaining a feminist.
I can understand the logic behind pro-life thought, even if I don't agree with it. If a fetus is a human being, then abortion is murder and you can't stand idly by and let that happen. Despite all the sexist bullshit spouted by pro-lifers, I believe that are some of them who don't think of abortion in terms of gender at all.
And honestly, if you've read up on feminism, gone marching for women's rights, volunteered at a women's shelter, and/or put a significant amount of thought into examining and dismantling the patriarchy, being pro-life shouldn't erase all that.
Also, I'm very, very suspicious of anyone who thinks they can go around playing feminist police. Aren't there more important things to worry about? I don't revoke feminist cards on other issues I feel strongly about, and I'm not going to treat abortion differently.
(And for the record, I am very, very pro-choice.)
you said :
"Despite all the sexist bullshit spouted by pro-lifers, I believe that are some of them who don't think of abortion in terms of gender at all"
I applaud that .
Now you will accuse me of derailing the thread but i'll just re use your sentence to point out that we can be feminist and fight patriarchy and also believe in abstinence ( and not necessarily abstinence only education ) :
Despite all the sexist bullshit spouted by pro-abstinence, I believe that are some of them who don't think of abstinence in terms of gender at all.
If you try to force me to go full term with a pregnancy and make choices that YOU think are right for ME
then you are not only NOT feminist, you are my enemy and I must defend my freedom, my right to choice, from people like you.
How dare anyone try to force a woman to have a child!!!!!!
and claim to be feminist, puhlease!!! be fuckin real!
that said, if you choose to have one or 18 children, I SUPPORT YOUR CHOICE.
If you CHOOSE to work inside or outside the home or both, or if you do both because, like me you're a single mom with no child support, I support your CHOICE.
If you choose to kneel and pray outside f yourself for help from a patriarchal god who seems to need some anger management, I support your CHOICE.
as long as you understand that my choices may be different and don't try to tread on me, more power to you.
Don't go shrieking at me about it. I'm pro-choice. I don't think that being anti-choice is at all feminist, but I don't go revoking feminist cards, and I'm suspicious of anyone who does.
I don't tell women that they're not feminists because they're anti-BDSM, or have some of the dumb ideas listed by the OP. I've run across feminists whose beliefs looked absolutely nothing like my feminism, and I still refused to play feminist police. I'm not going to make an exception for abortion just because it's historically one the biggest feminist issues.
And "people like you" is always rude. Please try to be civil.
"Is it ok to be feminist and secretly hope your child (future or born) grows into a cis-gendered, heterosexual, highly financially and corporately successful adult?"
This question just makes me feel sick and I will replied with a huge NO! To this question only. (The rest are yes) I hate this whole "I love everybody!" and then you think to yourself "But not MY family" mindset. You should hope that your kids are happy, safe and good members of society. Its okay to wish for them to have financial success, but the "cis-gendered, heterosexual" wish is just horrid.