When I'm standing in line at the grocery store, I usually can't help but notice the covers of the magazines on the stand. Most are the standard photoshopped pictures of female celebrities with attached slogans like: "Lose 10 pounds NOW," "Get a beach belly by summer," or "Tone those abbs" etc. For a long time I thought to myself that it was only women doing this to each other, some perception of what we think is beautiful, and so we strive for it, because the few men I had been with in my life couldn't care less if I went a few days without shaving, or just threw on some sweats and threw my hair back in a pony tail. Then I discovered the LoveSystems forum.
The PUA world that Sodini lived in truly bothers me. I don't why I have let it bother me so much, but it has touched someplace deep in me, and hit me hard. I'd spent some time in the Love Systems forums just reading every thread I could come across, because I really wanted to get into these guys heads (don't ask me why, but I had time on my hands, so I did). At first I was almost convinced that maybe they are just nice guys who became socially awkward due to a reclusive lifestyle. And some of them are. But the more I read these threads, the more apparent it became that these are the "player" types of men who just want as many notches in their belt as they can get. This is why they don't pay for the sex. To them, it is all about the conquering. It's extremely evident in the language that they use: Score, Game,Closing in, The number scale, etc.
It is the number rating scale that gets me the most. You're not worthy of being a woman if you're anything less than a 9, or if you're any older than 30, it seems. The way these guys talk about their conquests on these forums just makes my head spin. It comes from such a place of hate, superiority, and shallowness, but they'll either ignore you when you call them out, or deny it up and down. They go after girls that are either high, drunk, or have a very low self esteem. They also go after girls that haven't fully mentally matured yet. Sure, they may be 18, but maybe they didn't have as much guidance from their parents as another 18 year old. These guys take full advantage of that, and it really makes my stomach turn.
The whole idea of "negging," it seems to me, is to differentiate between which girl will stand up for herself, and which girl will to anything to please him. Negging is a backhanded compliment that usually goes after the most sensitive topics for a young girl: Her appearance, her intelligence, or whatever else you could think of. They specifically instruct guys to study the girl for a while, and attack what she seems to value most about herself. It is designed to knock down her confidence so that she will be more easy to persuade. After this, he is supposed to "isolate" her, I kid you not. It sounds a lot like what goes on in a psychologically abusive relationships to me.
I don't know if Sodini was a part of Love Systems, but he was a part of the world. The same way a boy becomes addicted to "World of Warcraft" is the same way Sodini became drawn into this whole "dating" game. Sure, he already had the addictive personality, sure he already had the pent up anger, but this world exacerbated it, and there's no telling how many other guys they are doing the same thing to. The thing about Sodini, is that it wasn't that he couldn't "get" any woman. It was that he couldn't get a fresh, hot, young 9+. This is what really puts the icing on the misogyny cake. He didn't want a woman his own age, or a nice down to earth girl to spend time with and get to know. He wanted a walking Barbie, and nothing less would do.
You should hear the way these men talk about girls that are less than a "9" on their forums. I've seen comments like "yeah, she was a 7-8, but she made up for it in bed. I think I'll string her along for another two weeks or so. Once I work my way into the comfort zone with that 10 I've been eying, I'll let her go. It's gonna be hard though, she's falling for me." I've seen so many comments of this nature, some even laced with degrading language. How these guys can defend what they're doing is beyond me. I would expect this behavior from an adolescent boy who doesn't know any better, but not from grown men.
I've never been as saddened as I am now for the dating scene. I've never really been a part of it. Is this what I would have to look forward to though? I had an eating disorder once, and was in a car accident that destroyed part of the elasticity in my face when the air bag exploded. I'm not grotesque looking, but not as youthful looking as I once was as a result. I know how fragile beauty is. I sunk into a deep depression after going to clubs with my roommate, because I was comparing myself to the other girls, and felt like I could never measure up. That is my problem of course. It is personal. And with support, I got over it, and discovered qualities in myself that I never thought I had.
But the larger issues of eating disorders, body dysmorphic disorders, depression, etc. goes beyond just the personal. It is the numbers rating scale mentality that girls are exposed to at a very young age. It creates an atmosphere where girls who have not had the chance to value the more important things in life place their whole self worth in appearance, because that is all that guys value in them. The men of this dating world create the competition by measuring these girls against each other, and enjoy watching them fall apart, and are not the least bit apologetic about it. As I stated in one of my replies to a thread I started in their discussion forum: http://www.theattractionforums.com/discussion/101951-turning-women-into-numbers.html It has gotten to the point where females are doing so many things to their bodies to be more attractive that they have become a distorted aberration of what they once were. I must say, I don't mean this to be an inult for females. Features like hair color, and even bodily proportions have taken on a caricatured look. Women are molded throughout the ages to represent what society determines beautiful at that time. They are like a bulletin board drifting through time being pinned andecorated to the point of wear and tear.
Just look at this video by "Mystery," one of the past leaders/instructors of LoseSystems.
He points out how she wore heals just to impress him. Does he care? Nope. That says a lot about this organization, and the guys that join it. He goes on to take full advantage of this girl anyway. And this isn't just some guy who payed for their seminars. It is one of the lead instructors.
I don't know what else to say. Usually my posts are more thoughtful than this, but I was upset, and needed to get this out of my system. The one thing I will close this off with is that most of these guys will say that their program is only to build more confidence in guys who want to build a relationship with women. Well their forums are a testament that this isn't the case at all. The language that they use in the posts that they make to these forums, and how they speak about their experiences as is they are conquests reveals how they really feel about these women that they are getting to, er, gaming.
I know that women measure men too, obviously. But we don't create such degrading names for men who don't possess
the qualities we have on our mental lists unless they are well deserved. And our lists are not so shallow.
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This was unknown to me, and I really appreciate your writing about it, Lynne C. May I ask what PUA and Sodini are? I think I missed the definitions when I was reading. Thanks!
PUA is an acronym for Pick Up Artist, which is more or less a label for the men who use these programmes to try to have sex with lots of women, whatnot. Sodini is the guy who shot and killed several women at an exercise class about a week ago, he is known to have been involved in this kind of stuff as a customer, buying their books, attending seminars, displaying the relevant attitudes and whatnot.
This post has the journalistic integrity of Bill O'Reilly.
I dislike the community with a passion, but the truth is Sodini never discovered the PUA community (let alone be a part of it).
He bought a "how to pick up women" book a few days before the act (amongst a dozen other last-ditch-attempts at getting a girlfriend finally), he most likely never even read it. The act was planned a long time ago.
These 2 issues are evil enough on their own merits, you don't have to invent a connection between them to point out their badness.
That statement'd be more believable if it weren't demonstratably false. We know he went to at least one PUA workship ( http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/08/nice_guy_must_d.php ) for instance.
But nice try.
Um, no. Sodini was most definitely involved in the PUA scene. He attended seminars by R. Don Steele, and has been identified as an attendee in one of Steele's videos. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32335641/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Sodini also made videos of himself giving a tour of his home, where he pointed out various features (like a matching couch and chair) that he hoped would impress the young ladies. He may have been a failed PUA, but he was definitely a disciple.
As for this woman's post having "the journalistic integrity of Bill O'Reilly," I don't see her claiming anywhere that she is a journalist. This is a community forum for Feministing members to express opinions. If you want journalism, try a newspaper.
Though if you WERE consulting a news source on a regular basis, you would likely already have come across Sodini's ties to the PUA community.
This is a very jarring read, and has many errors. I have to say I proof-read it in a rush and was pretty worked up as I was typing it. I guess it shows. My apologies everyone. Sodini did attend PUA Seminars though.
Lynne, as JetGirl says, you were perfectly right to say Sodini was involved with the PUAs - please don't apologise to the troll.