I'm having a hard time accepting my own thin privilege. RMJ at Deeply Problematic wrote a post a little bit ago about coming to accept her thin privilege. That was really the first time that I thought of myself as having thin privilege and it made me kind of uncomfortable. And I want to explore that uncomfortableness here.
So what is thin privilege exactly? Anji at Shut Up, Sit Down offers these examples :
So yes, I have thin privilege.
As a child, I was very slender. But then puberty hit and as I started growing, I started putting on weight around my middle. Now, I go between a size 12 and 14 in bottoms and between large and x-large in tops, depending on the store and style. I rarely ever have to be concerned about the fatphobic things that Anji lists above (depending on the store, I'm not always guaranteed clothes in my size range). But even without being subject to blatant fatphobia, I feel as if society judges me for being fat. I have started to come to terms a little bit with my body. I have started wearing shorts shorter than knee-length again. I try to dress for my body type instead of what's "in style."
I am, as some would say, a woman of "average"* weight and size...though you wouldn't know it by looking at the media and clothing stores. Because of this, I have thin privilege. So, why I am so uncomfortable at accepting this kind of privilege. Part of my interest in feminism is examining different kinds of privilege and my investments in them. So why is it so hard for me to accept this privilege?
Society tells us through the media, clothing stores, new reports, etc. that the "average" is, in fact, a size 4 - maybe even a size 2. Since puberty, I have not seen myself reflected in the media and as a result, have not thought of myself as having thin privilege. There are profits to me made to make women of all sizes feel bad about themselves, so that is what the media is going to do.
I try to be aware of fatphobic language and events, but maybe my denial of accepting my thin privilege contributes to a fatphobic society. Just because I am self-conscious about my body does not mean that I don't benefit from thin privilege. I have to start doing a better job at recognizing my investments in thin priviege.
Coming to terms with one's own thin privilege does not mean that you will not have any body image issues. Today's society thrives off of creating body image issues for women (and men). Owning one's thin privilege is more about realizing the ways that you are invested in the fatphobic tendencies of society.
*I dislike using the term "average" or "normal" to describe people's bodies. It implies that there is something abnormal or not average, when everybody's body is different. By using this term, I am simply using it statistically...my body is statistically average. But there really is no such thing as a "normal" body. Using the term "normal" just contributes to othering and oppression.
Originally posted at Adventures of a Young Feminist
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I struggle with thin privilege and fatphobia too. I don't feel thin, I don't feel like media reflects my body, and yet, I don't have to worry about the things Anji listed. I would never self-identify as thin.
I think fatphobia is also really difficult to deal with. I know that there's a lot of intersectionality in that topic - that cheap foods are more caloric, with less nutritional value, that there are certain biological factors that contribute to weight gain, as well as various depressions and mental factors, different races accept different weights - and yet, I find sometimes that I feel like a lot of people who like to shrug off responsibility for their weight. That, while I'm offended by PETA's Save the Whales billboard, a lot of overweight people probably eat way more calories in a day than they should or don't exercise enough. While I don't think every health problem an overweight person has is related to their weight, I don't think being overweight is healthy.
I think the reason fatphobia is so difficult for me and many others to deal with is because it doesn't seem like something you can't change. It can be very difficult to change, it can be impossible in some cases, but it's not exactly like being a woman or a racial minority or disabled/differently abled or being gay. I don't hate overweight people or try not to be friends with them, I don't think they should cover up at the beach or whatever. I hate it when I see cartoons or TV shows that make fun of them. I just think that it's healthier to not be overweight and that most of the people who are overweight could lose weight if they tried.
I know I'm going to get reamed for saying that, but I felt the need to share.
I'm not going to "ream" you for this because I understand that you're at least aware that your point of view is problematic. But I am going to point out just a couple of things.
First, you say "a lot of overweight people probably eat way more calories in a day than they should or don't exercise enough."
Here's the thing: a lot of thin people do the exact same thing. Only they aren't shamed for being able to get rid of those "extra" calories. Also, who is to say what's "enough"? You? Who are you to look at someone and *just based on their physical appearance* know how many calories they need to eat in a day? Why should you? Every body is different and every body needs different amounts of food to thrive. So let people live their lives as they see fit. Also, let me tell you from personal experience, people can also eat way LESS calories than they should and exercise to the point of injuring themselves and still be fat. The point is, you can't tell and you shouldn't judge.
You seem to be aware "that there are certain biological factors that contribute to weight gain" (since that's what you said). That's certainly true: genetics, medications, activity level, and eating habits all pay a part in how much fat tissue the human body has. So, how can you know just from looking at someone what their factors are? You can't.
So instead of judging people who are fat based on WHY they're fat, how about not judging fat people AT ALL?
I'm not judging anyone for being overweight, but this is the topic we're discussing and I'm being honest in my opinions. I wish everyone could feel comfortable in their own bodies, regardless of the shape, color, sex or size of that body. I also think that this subject has a key difference from other subjects like racism or homophobia.
"Also, who is to say what's "enough"?"
Doctors? Medical researchers? I don't need to reiterate what they keep telling the general population, but it's not ignorable.
My point is that fatphobia isn't just a body image issue. Shallow people will try and justify themselves with the medical side when they mock overweight people, but it's actually the health part that makes it difficult to deconstruct for others. You can't separate health issues from being overweight, which makes it difficult for people to accept. Being gay doesn't raise your chances of getting diabetes. Being a woman doesn't make you more likely to get cancer. So people wonder, "If I "accept" overweight people, does that mean I have to ignore the fact that it's unhealthy?"
Honestly, I'm not sure my view IS problematic - I think the media is fucked up, I think more stores should have more clothing sizes, I don't find humor in fat jokes and I don't think overweight=unattractive. But I don't think it's healthy. Why is that problematic?
It's problematic because you can't tell by looking at someone whether or not they're healthy. That fat person who eats well and exercises and is still fat? They're probably healthy! So when you say that "fat = unhealthy," you're still contributing to the problem, not the solution. Fat people get called all kinds of things like lazy, dirty, undisciplined; "unhealthy" is lumped in all the time.
Sure, some people who are fat have diabetes. BUT not ALL fat people have it! And some skinny people have diabetes, too, you know. Also heart disease and cancer and all kinds of health problems, but they're not blamed for it. Even if someone gets skin cancer from too much sun exposure, they are not blamed for it as much as a fat person is blamed for getting diabetes.
My point is, you don't have to ignore the fact that fat is correlated with diseases of all types, but you DO have to let go of the assumption that "fat person" automatically equals "unhealthy person." Because it doesn't. And when you do make that assumption (you and everybody else) make that fat person feel less than. When you assume that "fat = unhealthy," you contribute to a culture that shames and others fat people and you make that fat person you've just called "unhealthy" feel uncomfortable in their body, which is something you said you don't want to do.
I feel like this gets overlooked pretty much every time one of these "fatness" discussions takes the "health" angle:
It's problematic because it is none of your business.
Or, to add to the original post, if you can walk around confident that your friends, family, and total strangers aren't going to give you a condescending talk about how "concerned" they are about your "health" just because of the way you look, you have thin privilege.
People have other readily apparent health problems all the time, and it is generally understood in society that it is rude to comment on them -- or, if you are very close with the person in question, it is perhaps acceptable to initiate a sincere and understanding conversation with them about your concern. So if you really are genuinely concerned about your "unhealthy" friends, take it up in that way, don't go around saying things like "Oh I am totally progressive, BUT, come on guys, it is unhealthy and bad and a personal failure to be fat, amiright?"
The research is a lot more complicated than the media lets on. Last I heard being overweight could lead to diabetes only for people who are genetically prone to it. Men are more susceptible to certain diseases and women are more susceptible to others. If you were 20 years ago, you might have worse things to say about gay people but thankfully most of us are beyond thinking gay=HIV. Maybe in 20 years we'll be beyond fat=unhealthy.
Also worth considering - why does it matter?
The argument is that it's about health, but really, even if they *are* living a massively unhealthy lifestyle and could lose weight if they changed that (which is a huge assumption to make, really) - even if this is the case, what business is it of yours? I mean, take smoking. That's linked to nasty stuff far more strongly than weight is, but smoking does not get even remotely close to the amount of shaming and hatred being fat does. With smoking, it seems to be generally accepted that, well, they know the risks and it's their own decision. So why should nutrition and weight be different? Why should a person's health have anything to do with you?
There's also scientific data that speaks against many of the assumptions about fat - for instance, there's strong evidence to show that it is very difficult to cause a large, long-term change in your body weight one way or the other; people's bodies tend to have a set ideal weight and will do a lot to stay close to it - but really, what it boils down to for me is: Even if all the fat people were really unhealthy and just guzzling soda and eating at McDonald's all day, so what? Why does health have to be a moral issue?
that's a really good analogy thank you for that.
I actually think smoking gets quite a bit of shaming (and in my opinion smoking IS much worse than eating unhealthy, because smoking also makes those around you breathe in smoke, and eating or drinking unhealthy things doesn't make them seep into other people's bodies who don't want them)
Exactly what I was going to say -- in the last 40 years or so, the US has made a lot of progress in "shaming" smokers. I think this is appropriate for exactly the reason you mention -- second hand smoke is unhealthy to those who are exposed to it, and even if you do choose to make such an unhealthy decision for yourself, it's not cool to poison other peoples' air!
To the same extent as fat does? I was wondering about this analogy when I made it, but then I thought - I can't imagine people regularly being fired or not hired for smoking, I can't imagine TV shows presenting characters who smoke as people to mock, ridicule and generally only there for comedy, and isn't there still that general association of smoking with coolness alive somehow? And that's really just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean, maybe the fact that I don't smoke has made me blind to all this, but from what I see when I look around society it just seems on a whole different level. I don't want to argue that smokers aren't shamed /at all/, just not the same extent - and it seems like most of the shame is bound up in second-hand smoke and the issue of hurting others in contrast to them being unhealthy, like it is for fat.
It probably depends exactly where you are, but in my experience people will have no problem glaring at smokers, getting up and moving to a different table away from them, telling them they can't hang out with them because they smell like smoke even if they aren't actively smoking right then, bringing up lung cancer, etc etc. People might not like overweight people but I don't see them being so overt as to get up and move to a different table away from them, precisely because being overweight (or eating unhealthy, whichever one you want to consider) doesn't affect the person at the table next to you.
It bothers me way more when my friends smoke than when they eat junk food or gain some weight. And I am willing to pester them to quit smoking when I wouldn't pester them to lose weight-- smoking is a more concrete action that can be explicitly quit, and its extremely harmful to them and everyone around them. Losing weight is more amorphous and involves a lot of different factors and while it might be hurting them, it isn't physically hurting the people around them.
People TOTALLY judge smokers and act as though the addiction is their personal business. And it isn't just when second hand smoke will affect them. Our society does a great job of promoting
action=unhealthy=personality trait=bad person=mistreatment
Please go read some of the information at the "Junkfood Science" blog. http://www.junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
She looks at what is "known" to be "true" about the intersection of weight and health. Especially interesting is the "Obesity Paradox" series. What you hear in the mainstream media about fat and health is usually misleading and often false, and it sounds like you are at least thinking about these things and might like more education from a different perspective.
I would advise against this. The author of that blog prominently links to (and supports) so-called "consumer freedom" astroturfs that are lobbying fronts for agrobusiness, corporate megafarms, and anti-worker, environment, and animal protection interests. The extent of the cherry-picking of which studies to report and which issues and interpretations to highlight in them (and which to ignore) are really problematic as well.
I thought one of the key dimensions about privilege was that it was 'unearned.'
Most people 'earn' their body fat through diet and exercise decisions. Very few have problems that actually completely throw their ability to control their body weight (in either direction) out the window.
But it's still hard to lose weight. And there is also the possibility that a person simply might not be able to afford healthy food, or they might have many responsibilities that don't leave time for regular exercise. Most people are built to gain weight as a result of evolution. Not to mention - you build up fat cells as a child (and then at puberty, they stop growing and you're stuck with a certain number), so if you were raised in a household that didn't encourage you to go outside and play, that fed you fatty foods, you have more fat cells than a person who was outside all day and fed carrot sticks as a child, which sets you on an irreversible pattern for life. So even if you can shrink the fat cells, you can't get rid of them without surgery.
"so if you were raised in a household that didn't encourage you to go outside and play, that fed you fatty foods, you have more fat cells than a person who was outside all day and fed carrot sticks as a child"
As a kid, I was raised on carrots and was 'outside all day' most of the time. I still turned out really fat, just like my biological relatives. The same is true for most of my very fat friends.
Yes, and thin privilege is unearned in many cases.
Have you ever met someone who ate and ate and ate and still managed to stay thin? I sure have. And yet they benefit from thin privilege.
Sure, there are also people who starve themselves and obsessively work out to be thin. According to that definition, they've "earned" the right to look down on everybody who is bigger than them.
Yup, thanks to genetics (my dad is Skeletor, well most of the men in my family are) I can eat and eat and eat and never gain a thing. I eat a lot of junk food, and I've known many overweight girls including my mother and my sister and every other female in my family try every excercise and diet in the book and never reach the "ideal" weight. My Mom is still overweight but she lost enough that it doesn't affect her health. I always felt terrible that they felt so terribly about themselves.
I don't think there's an oppressive system working against people who are obese, which is also needed if we're going to claim thin privilege exists. If you're so obese that you can't fit in an entire row of seats in an airplane, that's not the world working against you. That's you working against yourself to the point where you need professional help to combat your problem eating, because nobody gets to that size by eating right and exercising. You're at the point where you need to lose weight, not to be able to travel in an airplane, but to live a healthy life.
I mean "you" in the collective sense, not you personally.
Well, I'm going to choose to address it as "you (me) personally," regardless.
I can't fly on commercial airlines, because I can't fit into a single seat and can't afford two. I'm also a vegan who exercises regularly, so I'm not sure what part of my "problem eating" you think needs professional help -- the steamed beats I had for lunch, or the brussels sprouts I had for dinner? What did you eat today that makes you so superior to my fat, cruelty-free @ss?
As for you not thinking that an oppressive system exists against fat people, well, that blindness to...wait for it...the oppressive system which exists against fat people, is itself a graphic demonstration of the thin privilege you claim doesn't exist. Don't tell the oppressed class that they are imagining (or to blame for) their oppression -- the slave sees the reality of the situation with greater clarity than the master, remember.
I've never made a single snide comment at any overweight person or even had such a thought. But even my overweight FRIENDS have shamed me for my size, and they're probably thinking it a lot more than they're saying it. Furthermore, I've read plenty of comments and posts here that tell me I'm not "normal" or "real" because of my size. I get that message all the time from feminists and probably-not-feminists alike. Every woman is taught to be ashamed of their size no matter what it is. This has been said here many, many, many times.
Another thing that people have said billions of times around here, vegan does not equal healthy, nor does it make you superior (see, you think you're superior because of your diet, not I. Projection much?). Many people who are overweight and obese are malnourished.
no, most people don't earn their weight-or at least, they earn it through genetics, the same way you "earn" being white, or male, or any number of things that we recognize that you don't get to choose. this isn't different when it's about weight
I think one of the issues is that "thin privilege" is the benefits one gets through not being fat, rather than the benefits one gets through being thin, or the benefits one imagines one would get if one were thin. For instance, having thin privilege doesn't have to mean you'd think of yourself as thin (I don't, really) or that you'd be commonly described as thin. It also doesn't have to mean you don't struggle with yourself regarding weight and body image issues - if it did, there would be hardly a woman in Western culture who could be said to have thin privilege!
Instead, thin privilege is, really, not being shamed for being fat. One of the things I really notice for myself is that thin privilege means that although I tend to eat unhealthily I do not get publicly shamed for it, that I can go to the corner shop and get a frozen pizza for dinner - and even do that almost every day for weeks - without anyone shaking their head at me, publicly accosting me or doing anything like that.
And, yeah, I am one of those people who eat really unhealthily a lot of the time and am still relatively thin, and probably always will be as my body doesn't seem disposed to change its weight by more than five kilos one way or the other no matter what I do. I haven't "earned" my thinness by any means. (And, yeah, there are reasons why I eat this way, and those reasons are really irrelevant because my choices about how I eat are my own business and not a moral issue.) This makes me very lucky, because if I use my own internalised fatphobia and what I've heard from fat acceptance people to estimate how some events in my life would have gone if I were fat, I can guess that I would have had a lot more problems and been taken a lot less seriously. Especially with the potential intersection of fat and disabled.
For anyone to whom this issue is new or who hasn't really heard that much about fat acceptance, I highly recommend reading Shapely Prose. :)?
Being a size 0, I might have a "thin privilege", but I don't have a "height privilege" or a "hair privilege" or a "luscious eyelashes" privilege. I think that type of body that the media projects as the ideal is more than just being a size zero. Its more about all-round "perfection"**. Pretty much no one has that "privilege".
Large sized women aren't the only ones who have trouble finding clothes in the stores, too. Being petite, I never find the right size of clothes, unless they are in some ridiculously expensive store that has categorized my height as a "figure flaw". And my friend may be slender enough to fit into size 4 jeans, but she never finds shirts to properly fit her bustier top-half.
So unless you're genetically engineered, I don't think anyone has a "privilege" that makes it easier for them to bear the images we see in the media.
**I say perfection in quotes, because, of course, that definition is variable
One thing to remember when posting in a thread like this: Don't make it about you, especially if you are the one who has the privilege (and yes, you do have it.) As for your argument about height, hair, or eyelash privilege, I find it somewhat insulting that you put that on the same level as weight privilege. I think you know very well that all of those combined do not even hold a candle to the kind of privilege one receives because they are the "ideal size" according to the media. I have great skin and hardly ever get pimples. However, because I am "overweight" according to society, my great skin has nothing to do with privilege at all. In fact, it is completely overlooked because having great skin does not trump being thin, by any means.
Apparently we see things in very different ways. When you watch TV or glance at a magazine cover, I'm guessing you feel insecure about your weight. Whereas when I see the same images, I feel insecure about my height. You say this does "not even hold a candle to the kind of privilege one receives because they are the "ideal size"', but I feel the same way about my height. I see plus-sized models, but I never see short models. Maybe you're not preoccupied about your height, like I'm not preoccupied about my weight. I'm sure there's someone else out there who freaks out over their skin, which neither of us do. You might not empathize with that person, even though they feel the same feelings you do.
But I don't want to trivialize anyone's insecurities, because we all process them in different ways, and they all hurt us in the same ways. But I feel like you are rather presumptiously saying, "my problem is worse than your problem".
I don't mean to sound egocentric and "make it all about me", as you said. I just wanted to point out that no one has a "privilege". I think we all rationalize that all our insecurites are unfounded and based on a silly stereotype we see in the media. But psychologically, we only see what we are lacking and what others have.
But a lot of people do have privilege, that's the point. Privilege isn't exactly a checklist--oh I have light skin and blonde hair, so that's two privilege check marks for me, but I'm a larger size than what is socially acceptable, so that's minus one checkmark. Privilege is very, very real, and extremely complex. There's a big difference between insecurities about eyelashes or something and living in a fatphobic society.
I don't mean to minimize your experiences of being insecure about your own looks and body--societal pressures cause most women to be insecure about something. But that still isn't the same as dealing with discrimination and being shamed based on a body characteristic. I know it's hard to find clothes that fit for most body types these days--but that's still not the same as getting dirty looks whenever you enter a crowded train or plane, people not wanting to sit next to you in crowded theaters, being told you "can't" wear something, etc.
And I don't think people here are saying my problem is worse than your problem. I think it's just that this is a very big societal problem that people are faced with everyday. And it's the topic of this thread, so that's what people are going to talk about. If you feel bad that you're not very tall, that could be a topic for an entirely different thread. Just try to remember that we're talking about privilege here, which is entirely different from being free from insecurities. Everyone has insecurities, but not everyone is subjected to frequent discrimination, both overt and more subliminal, based on certain characteristics.
I have been a size 4 and a size 16, and had a variety of the other things you mention not be media-perfect (eyelashes and whatever else). The fatness thing is worse, way way way worse. No one is going to assume that you're an out of control slob who hates herself and whose boyfriend is only dating her because she's easy or whatever because you're short. Come on now.
You know...I have to say, I have seen this type of comment more than a few times. Since you are from the "privileged group, you shouldn't say anything about YOUR insecurity here". Funny seeing, I have not ONCE seen a post on here where a woman who has an insecurity about being too small COULD speak up. Where should she talk about? Or should she just shut up since he is thin? I am not likening it to the stigma of being overweight in our society. I am frustrated though that women that are considered thin seemed to be constantly quieted because of their natural "privilege". It sounds a lot to me like people telling feminists in America to be GLAD they aren't like the women in the Middle East, and to remember how lucky we are here. I am also a size 0 (sorry for making it about me), and pretty much can not find womens pants that fit me. I often have people question if I "ever eat??", tell me I look like a little girl, "not womanly", or demand that I must have implants because my top doesn't match my childlike bottom. This all being said, I am also aware of the privilege I have in being thin on a day to day basis, many people in my family are overweight and I am very aware of the bs they need to endure. I am just saying, it just doesn't seem very feminists to point out that ones problem is worse than another, especially when we aren't keeping a safe place for those "lesser problems" to have a chance to speak out. And by that, I mean women who are thin.
In this case, the thread is specifically about thin privilege and issues overweight people have, so it's reasonable if someone is viewed as derailing the conversation to some extent when they bring up their own issues with height or some other non-weight-based factor.
That doesn't mean no one can speak about those things. If the post doesn't go along with what you want to talk about, write your own. You already know you're not the only reader who might want to discuss the topic, and you're more likely to start a worthwhile discussion than by just trying to insert a sidebar on a post like this.
I have had many self esteem/body image issues in my life due to what I grew up seeing modeled and other things I would rather not go itno. Despite that, any time I would/do talk about my insecurities around my overweight friends, I was/am immediately silenced because I am just a skinny girl. I don't doubt that it would be any different here if I were to make a post specifically about it. Especially since I have never seen anything remotely applying to it posted on this website and only see the same negative comments I receive in my every day life. I am not looking for anyones sympathy anyways, I am just voicing that there is a group of women that is also being discriminated against, especially on this website. I wrote this in this topic specifically to address the "thin women" that are shut down, and not given a venue in which to share their feelings.
I'm sorry but when someone comes into a thread where there is discrimination and alienation towards a certain group of people and then someone from the opposite end comes in and is like "oh yea, i am totally oppressed too even though i don't deal with the same things you have to deal with. sometimes i have problems that just make me feel kinda bad, but not in the same sense as how you are made to feel, but still a little bad" then yea, I and many others get kind of irritated. Yes, you did make this about you and that is not right in my opinion. I am not trying to say that there are not repercussions from being naturally thin, especially if you desperately try to gain weight and are not succeeding. But do not come into a thread and try to gain sympathy when you are undeniably from a privileged group.
I have to strongly agree with this comment. I'm afraid to comment on threads even remotely related to weight because I'm think and I fear the backlash I will get.
...
I'll say the same thing I said to Sarah. Write your own post. If you talk about specific issues of being thin and people come in saying, "You have no idea what it's like to be fat," you can call them out the same as is happening here, because they're making the topic about themselves and not the purpose of the post.
If you get overrun in your own thread, then you have every reason to complain. And you might want to do so. But talking about it here would be going straight off the rails.
Ok I appreciate your feedback. I am sorry for derailing it. I doubt I will put up my own post though because I don't think it would be beneficial and would create more anger than anything.
A while ago I posted my own community blog about my issues regarding being thin. Therefore I wasn't derailing anything and I wasn't attacked for doing so. I wasn't received negatively at all because it was my own post about issues that were specifically my own. I wasn't changing a topic about thin privilege to discuss how thin people have problems too. I actually received support for what I was going through.
That said...
I hate hate hate how almost every thin privilege thread does this! I've been on both sides of the fence and so I like to read both perspectives, but really? Can't we just have a thread on thin privilege and thin privilege alone?
And why is it that so many people bring up "well really skinny people also have hard times finding clothes!"? As if that's the only disadvantage people are complaining of in a fatphobic society?
And yes SarahES, I know you weren't the original derail, I just kind of picked a place to respond. (And I know I'm contributing to the derail but this all just kind of annoyed me).
Thanks for your comment. I am fairly new to this site, and must have missed your post, I haven't seen any like it. I am happy to hear it was well received, and it must mean my assumptions were wrong. I was just working off the feedback I have received through my life, but I am glad to know that you had a positive experience through your post. My intention was not to derail this so much, but it ended up happening unfortunately.
Are you completely unable to participate in the discussion without making it about how you feel about being thin? If so, then yeah, I see your problem. If not, then congrats, no backlash for you.
Oh the horror of being size 0 with big breasts!
I don't mean to trivialize your personal body image issues, but please recognize that this discussion is about societal beauty standards. It's one thing for you to not think that you're beautiful, and another for society at large to feel that way about fat people.
You don't mean to trivialize yet you do that precise thing by mocking what I said? How condescending and hurtful of you. Can't say I am surprised, you proved my exact point. I guess its ok to mock women if they meet "society's standards".
Oh and strangers often asking me if I have an eating disorder is not just "how I feel about myself", people assuming I was vain enough to get breast implants and this judging me for that and making comments to my face is not just "how I feel about myself", people telling me I don't look like a woman, but a child, is not "how I feel about myself". People often likening being a size 0 to not a REAL woman is not "how I feel about myself". I see at this point this thread is absolutely derailed and I apologize, but my complaints were not how I view MYSELF, it is the feedback I have gotten from other people that I spoke about.
i think everyone here understands your plight. but this was a post about the privileges of being thin. it wasn't a post asking thin people to step forward and assert their 1,001 reasons why they still have problems.
Yeah I got it, and I apologized for doing so. I am fairly new to this place and was working off of what I have seen thus far, I will not derail in the future, really. I just wasn't about to have her tell me my issues were just about how I saw myself. Thats it, I am done, and I apologize.
yea i'm sorry, i admit i didn't see someone already address it above! i hope you continue to read/comment on posts and this doesn't dissuade you. i've learned a lot being here.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#butbut
Sometimes it's hard to understand why this kind of argument is derailing. What it serves to do is silence people who are trying to discuss their lack of privilege by implying that everyone feels that way, and it has nothing to do with the aspect of the body they inhabit that they are discussing. Because you know best! You can see it for what it is - even though you've never experienced being fat.
I am pretty sure that you didn't mean it that way, but that's how it sounds.
I certainly understand fatphobia in society, and believe that our clothing stores and media should reflect the reality of what modern human beings in the U.S. look like. I understand that fat people suffer tremendously because of their size alone, and in many cases, their size is not a function of their lifestyle.
Still, I refuse (and encourage you to refuse) to feel guilty for being thin. I work out regularly and eat extremely well. If it's a privilege, it is a privilege I work hard for. It is not your fault that the privilege exists, so don't feel bad when booking a flight/walking into a store. You can work to change society in other ways, but don't feel bad for who you are.
I don't think acknowledging privileged means you have to feel guilty for being thin. As a chubby (but still able to fit into seats everywhere, clothing at most stores, etc.) white, heterosexual woman I have a lot of privileged. I acknowledge the presence of that privilege, but I don't feel guilty for it. As someone I really look up to once explained to me, feeling guilty about privilege is just another way of giving into your privilege since that guilt still makes it about YOU.
So I don't feel guilty. What I do, instead, is learn all that I can about healthy physical and mental habits related to body image and do my best to educate those around me about fatphobia and the myths generated by it.
I don't know about you but I, personally, would like to live in a world where people are encouraged to love themselves and their bodies no matter what that body looks like. You have every right to feel good about the body you work hard to take care of, but so does everyone else - that's what fighting thin-privilege is about, not guilt, acceptance.
Yeah, "privilege" isn't about feeling guilty or even about recognizing oneself as an active agent of something bad or some such, sometimes it's just about realizing that other people have different experiences from you, that other people have a harder time just existing within society than you do because of their lack of the privilege that you have. It's not about how you should feel about yourself, exactly, it's about understanding your relative position in society, and using that knowledge to inform your behavior and perceptions.
Wow, I think I'm done reading topics on this site about fat/body image. They always leave my feeling worse than before. To those who do have the energy to elaborate and discuss this, good on you, because I just don't.
Yes. It's hard not to read the comments, though, isn't it?
The original post was good.
"Coming to terms with one's own thin privilege does not mean that you will not have any body image issues. Today's society thrives off of creating body image issues for women (and men). Owning one's thin privilege is more about realizing the ways that you are invested in the fatphobic tendencies of society."
This. Absolutely. I have thin privilege and I've struggled to accept this, mostly because I've also battled anorexia for six years. (I don't think of myself as "thin".) But these are two entirely different (but interrelated) systems of oppression. There is oppression against all women that is lookism and then there is fatphobia.
As a former anorectic, a thin person can be even more unhealthy than a fat person, even if not "read" as anorectic. The fact that society bases "health" on weight is fatphobia. You can be unhealthy and thin, healthy and fat, vice versa.
Thank you for writing this. I am just sorry to see it derailed because of the confusion of fatphobia with lookism.
I've been thinking about this, as a mother to two boys, one overweight and the other thin as a rail.
Both have pretty good eating habits - they of course like junk-foody kind of treats, but we limit that, and have a lot of fruit and vegetables and healthy meals. The heavier one is more physically active overall than the skinny one.
It's very tempting to discriminate between the two. For example, to just say yes when the skinny one asks for more food, while I ask the heavier one "Are you sure you are hungry?" I'm trying very, very hard to avoid that trap.
Unfortunately, even if everyone in the world was "thin", we'd *still* be obessessed with becoming thinner---because it's not about being thin, it's about being better than someone else.
I think there's a lot to this, actually -- I don't think it really manifests as a direct, conscious "I am better than that person" process most of the time (although I guess sometimes it does, ugh), but it's sort of a nasty and all-too-common perversion of healthy ambition that people orient their personal "how 'good' am I doing?" meters relative to the people around them, instead of determining it for themselves -- people generally want to win the race against other people, not beat their "personal best," as it were.
Not really... historically in western Europe it's been quite fashionable for people to be somewhat more robust - look at old masters' paintings. By today's standards, people in these paintings are generally "fat". It used to be a privilege to be able to eat a full meal on a regular basis. There are still plenty of cultures where it is considered more attractive to have fat on your body.
In Western countries today, I think being larger has become associated with being poor or lazy (etc, etc) to be larger (even if this is not necessarily the case). Ironically, people also seem to associate "fatness" with being privileged enough to eat constantly. I guess that at least part of this comes from hang ups that if you are larger, you must be a part of the ruling class.
Sooner or later down the line, our preferences will switch again.
That being said, I don't think it's ever acceptable to demean or mistreat someone because they're fat. But I don't think it's ever acceptable to demean or mistreat anyone.
there does seem to be some people that have that 'i worked for it' attitude about being thin, or other reasonings as to why it's ok to have the privilege and not deal with it. (like, i was born this way, it's not my fault, don't hate me for it). anyone with privilege will rationalize away any responsibility or obligation they have to help oppressed people. it's sort of a knee-jerk reaction. no one wants to feel BAD. but i really don't think people are on feministing to hear about how thin you are and how you aren't going to feel bad about it.
i'm super skinny. i also deal with eating disorder issues. i'm not proud of either. i have so many conflicting internal dramas going on all the time about weight it can sometimes consume me. i feel embarrassed when other people compliment me on being so thin. at the same time, i tear myself to pieces when i don't feel thin. though all this, i don't shirk the fact that i have, even at what i allege is my 'fattest', a huge privilege being attractive, white and thin. i grew up in an environment that shamed fat and i never forget it. i don't guilt myself into oblivion but i also check each automatic thought that pops into my head when i see someone who is supposedly 'fat', as i watch other girls/men dissect people regarding their body size. and i speak up. i really try. i've created tension by pointing out people's weight privilege, but i feel like that's my duty, to not let comments and actions go by without notice just because it's easier. i'm totally not perfect. but i am not going to come here all 'poor skinny me, stop picking on me'. it grosses me out to hear people say that.
Every time I read posts on weight at feministing I am reminded that I too am guilty of the kind of crap thinking that fatphobia makes acceptable. My knee jerk reaction of thinking that people just need to eat health and get moving was obnoxious when paired with the fact that I haven't been outside my apartment yet and I am currently eating a cookie.
The argument that being fat is not like being gay or black, because fat is a choice, is ridiculus. Justifying your privilege by calling fatness unhealthy is exactly what happened to gay men and women as well as black men and women many years ago. Originally it was theorized (by "scientists")that people from Africa were uncivil and stupid as well as many other things which led to the ingrained racism we have today. Gay men and women were once considered such a danger to themselves and others that there were institutionalized. One of the claims against them was that their uncontrollable lust could also be directed at children which is a claim that is still used today. Most recently the idea that fat is inherently unhealthy is also a result of using "science" justify phobia and is equally unfounded.
Yes, THIS.
I am very disappointed in this post and some of the comments and troubled by this idea of accepting one's "privilege." Basically now I have to constantly watch what I say, or if I say I'm not unhappy with X part of my body, because "OMG I'm skinny so I have no problems. I am happy with my body and don't feel the need to say something like I can relate to fat people because even though I'm skinny I can't find clothes to fit my small chest. I'm sorry but I am sick and tired of overweight (or whatever PC term you want) people trying to make me feel bad because I'm not "fat" and don't have to suffer what they do. But I'm Hispanic. I'm a woman. Plenty of stereotypes and racism just based on that. But I don't go around telling white people they shouldn't whine about stuff because they are "privileged" to be white. I totally disagree with even accepting this idea of "thin privelege." And yes, I know fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. I'm thin and have high cholesterol. But you have to admit human bones are not meant to support extra weight, hence all the joint problems in overweight people. At least recognize that. And every overweight person I talk to insists they eat healthy and exercise. OK fair enough. And even if you are overweight because you overeat, that's fine. It's your life. But I am skeptical of soo many overwieght people saying they eat super healthy. There has to be at least some obesity caused by overeating and I wish people would admit it. And if they do, there is nothing wrong with that; it's your life and your choices.
I am very disappointed in this post and some of the comments and troubled by this idea of accepting one's "privilege." Basically now I have to constantly watch what I say, or if I say I'm not unhappy with X part of my body, because "OMG I'm skinny so I have no problems. I am happy with my body and don't feel the need to say something like I can relate to fat people because even though I'm skinny I can't find clothes to fit my small chest. I'm sorry but I am sick and tired of overweight (or whatever PC term you want) people trying to make me feel bad because I'm not "fat" and don't have to suffer what they do. But I'm Hispanic. I'm a woman. Plenty of stereotypes and racism just based on that. But I don't go around telling white people they shouldn't whine about stuff because they are "privileged" to be white. I totally disagree with even accepting this idea of "thin privelege." And yes, I know fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. I'm thin and have high cholesterol. But you have to admit human bones are not meant to support extra weight, hence all the joint problems in overweight people. At least recognize that. And every overweight person I talk to insists they eat healthy and exercise. OK fair enough. And even if you are overweight because you overeat, that's fine. It's your life. But I am skeptical of soo many overwieght people saying they eat super healthy. There has to be at least some obesity caused by overeating and I wish people would admit it. And if they do, there is nothing wrong with that; it's your life and your choices.
I am very disappointed in this post and some of the comments and troubled by this idea of accepting one's "privilege." Basically now I have to constantly watch what I say, or if I say I'm not unhappy with X part of my body, because "OMG I'm skinny so I have no problems. I am happy with my body and don't feel the need to say something like I can relate to fat people because even though I'm skinny I can't find clothes to fit my small chest. I'm sorry but I am sick and tired of overweight (or whatever PC term you want) people trying to make me feel bad because I'm not "fat" and don't have to suffer what they do. But I'm Hispanic. I'm a woman. Plenty of stereotypes and racism just based on that. But I don't go around telling white people they shouldn't whine about stuff because they are "privileged" to be white. I totally disagree with even accepting this idea of "thin privelege." And yes, I know fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. I'm thin and have high cholesterol. But you have to admit human bones are not meant to support extra weight, hence all the joint problems in overweight people. At least recognize that. And every overweight person I talk to insists they eat healthy and exercise. OK fair enough. And even if you are overweight because you overeat, that's fine. It's your life. But I am skeptical of soo many overwieght people saying they eat super healthy. There has to be at least some obesity caused by overeating and I wish people would admit it. And if they do, there is nothing wrong with that; it's your life and your choices.