I hate to kick a brotha while he’s down.
But the actor/rapper/singer Drake, who lies in the fetal position above after falling at a concert late last week, looks how I feel about his music videos. And it’s not just run-of-the-mill misogyny in his music videos that has me down. Its articles and interviews boasting how much say Drake has over his musical content and his career.
The story goes: far, far away in music land, low-income black men were swept off street corners by record execs in suits who could provide economic security for their families and friends in exchange for a little shucking and rhyming. Because of this, many black feminists went to the mat for black men challenging the mostly white male executive boards of Universal Music Group, Time Warner and Viacom. These execs globally distributed humiliating portrayals of women and people of color and became billionaire rich while black people, the innovators of hip hop, remained poor. But it’s not just these power -driven, money-hungry white men who were ruining hip hop for the rest of us. Hip hop has developed a good ol’ boys club of its own — of brothas. And the likelihood that new recruits will buck at their mentors is slim.
You’d think that, if black rappers had control over their content, portrayals of their own communities wouldn’t be so offensive. The problem is: big name rappers who are serving the role of mentor today, many of whom have considerable autonomy over their own content, earned their stripes in the ‘90s during an era of the demise of activist-centered hip hop. During this time, white execs aggressively threw marketing dollars in inner city communities giving preference to rappers who were authentic but not militant. Their aim was to phase out the hip hop music that reigned in the ‘80s. ‘80s hip hop had messages about apartheid, nuclear proliferation , police brutality or the effects of Reaganomics as the rule. Because this kind of hip hop disrupted corporate investments, young men who were willing to reinforce stereotypes about drugs, violence and misogyny in their lyrics got radio air play, distribution deals and hefty advances.
It’s no wonder that in a recent interview, Drake mentions that he is “surrounded by some of the greatest people that have been preserving hip hop.” He rattles off Jay-Z, Lil’ Wayne and Kanye West. Jay-Z and Lil’Wayne were ‘90s made artists. Kanye is a millennial rapper who was mentored by Jay-Z. And all are hip hop stars whose careers have thrived on sexist portrayals of women. Drake even got Kanye “I'm-tryin’-to-make-it- t o- Ur-anus ” West (yes, he actually said that ) to direct “Best I Ever Had.” And while it may seem noble on the surface that rappers would assist other rappers who are essentially their competition in a recession, don’t be fooled. This isn’t about brotherly love. It’s a survival tactic. People like Jay, Ye and Wayne have no interest in new artists dismantling sexist portrayals and thriving on talent alone, because it threatens their very existence in the industry. While I don’t miss the days when rap battles happened on records and in the streets, this “cooperitation” (competition cooperating) is the interpersonal, hip hop version of media consolidation. It’s equally bad for unique talent as it is detrimental to the portrayals of women.
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good post. I really have nothing to add, but just wanted to say thanks for writing this.
This is very interesting. Could you say more about how women are excluded from "brothas" membership? Keri Hilson seems to have found support among them. I was listening to old Timbaland and some of the stuff he did a few years back, he seems to espouse many feminist ideals in his lyrics: "before you lose a pound I'll buy a bigger car."
Power -driven, money-hungry white men and reaganomics are responsible for a lot of the problem black men and women face today .
But SINGLING out whites as the perpetual responsible , in this case for mysoginy in hip hop , is an infantilizing , thus incredibly racist toward black , attitude that doesn't help at all young black men and women to feel empowered in their ability to choose their destiny . It just promotes the dumb idea that any effort they will make will be anihilated by our white racist world .
And this idea is false because black men and women DO HAVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED .
Focusing on fighting against power -driven, money-hungry white men will not make misoginy magically desappear from hiphop .
in conclusion i'd ask :
Was‘80s hip hop exempt of gross sexism ?
There was sexism prevalent in all genres of music in the 80s and early 90s; however, particularly when it comes to hip hop, it was nowhere near the magnitude that you see today. Today it's actually pervasive and the rule to have some sort of misogyny in your lyrics.
Back in the 80s, rap music that came out of the South Bronx was political, street poetry, and had a clear message. Today it has turned into some sort of joke, a parody of what it once was, and I can't sit here and think that the black community let that happen all on their own. We all know that most female pop stars in the commercial music industry have virtually no artistic autonomy, why would it be any different for male musicians? The big-time record companies are going to push what they want to sell, and that's all there is to it. They don't want to take any chances, so they stick with rehashed stereotypes. The more you divide a people, the more products you can create to sell. I wonder if this is more an issue of capitalism than it is sexism.
There was sexism prevalent in all genres of music in the 80s and early 90s; however, particularly when it comes to hip hop, it was nowhere near the magnitude that you see today. Today it's actually pervasive and the rule to have some sort of misogyny in your lyrics.
Back in the 80s, rap music that came out of the South Bronx was political, street poetry, and had a clear message. Today it has turned into some sort of joke, a parody of what it once was, and I can't sit here and think that the black community let that happen all on their own. We all know that most female pop stars in the commercial music industry have virtually no artistic autonomy, why would it be any different for male musicians? The big-time record companies are going to push what they want to sell, and that's all there is to it. They don't want to take any chances, so they stick with rehashed stereotypes. The more you divide a people, the more products you can create to sell. I wonder if this is more an issue of capitalism than it is sexism.
I don't think this is an issue black people can conveniently lay at the doorstep of Corporate America. It seems to me that the real misogyny of hip hop started with Gangsta Rap, and that originated, and found huge success in black America first (and still).
There was a time when Afro-centric & 'feel good' hip hop flourished, but after Tupac & Biggie it died. True we have artists like Common, Talib Kweli, Wyclef, & the BEPs but even with the huge success of Kanye, its hard to sell something other than Gangsta Rap. At the end of the day, business people don't like to take risks and, frankly, I doubt it would pay off. Heck the artists themselves, after all, use the music as an entree to a movie career. They want to make a big splash as fast as possible & move on.
Anecdotally speaking, I have to agree with this. I've asked people flat out why they like certain misogynistic artists and several people admitted that it was the candor of the messages and that they identified with a lot of the sort of hard, no-holds barred hatred toward women. I was told that the messages were things that they would have wanted to say to women, but could not for social and practical reasons.
One person even sent me lyrics to a particular song that he felt spoke to him. Let's just say that later he apologized for it because it was just so offensive and absurd. Clearly if I had sent something of that level of violence and degradation as a message toward men, I'd be simply another angry feminist, lol.
I'm wondering what happened to strong female rap artists, like MCLyte? (spelling?), Salt N Peppa, Queen Latifah, and the list goes on. Even in the 90s, groups like TLC, etc. Yeah, you have female musicians today, and you have black female musicians, but their music is mainly centered around break ups, sex, and pleasing men, with a few exceptions of Beyonce's songs, albeit I haven't listened to a great variety of today's female performers, so maybe someone else can confirm how right or wrong I am about this.
There was a recent controversy right on the front page of Yahoo news recently about Kelly Clarkson complaining that one of her songs that the record companies released to her album without her permission had a backbeat that was almost identical to Beyonce's "Halo". Many of these female artists have someone else writing their music, and playing with the sound. All the female artists virtually do today is sing, and dance, but they hardly have a hand in the making and production of their own music. And it is not due to lack of talent either; many of them want to write their own music, but the record companies literally only want to portray one type of image. Those who fight against this usually end up on their own or joining independent labels.
Now look at the male musicians. Agenda?
If we had female musicians the way we did in the past, the misogyny in the male rappers' music lyrics would at least be challenged, and females, particularly black females would have someone to relate to and represent them in the music industry. I am wondering why we don't though, or rather, why the females that we already have in the music industry have to tread carefully around their music, but not the male musicians.
"I'm wondering what happened to strong female rap artists, like MCLyte? (spelling?), Salt N Peppa, Queen Latifah, and the list goes on. Even in the 90s, groups like TLC, etc..."
Here you just reminded me of Keny Arkana, but since I don't speak French I only got the impression of her strength after reading amateur translations of a few of her songs on the web.
I've asked myself the same question. My guess is that mainstreamism is hostile to individuality.
But another reason why I'm kinda skeptical of placing ALL the blame on the companies and white consumers is that whenever I've seen footage of mainstream rap/hip-hop venues it's at least 50% black folk. Anyone have any stats on that? I'm eyeballing it, but it certainly looks like hardcore rappers are not hurting for black consumers when it comes time for the show.
And my understanding is that the concerts are where these artists earn their keep, and not on album sales unless they are the cream of the crop.
There's also another intersection of sexism because it's become a tradition for up&coming, unknown rappers to rely on sexist, quasi pornographic videos to make a name for themselves ---pimpin' bootie and bling for late night audiences so they can get their songs out there.
So it's no wonder that women who are coming in as new artists aren't going to be taken seriously.
I agree. I recently downlaoded some Alanis Morisette and some Garbage songs. The women displayed angst, anger and wit in their lyrics. They sanga big fuck you to misogyny and didnt give a fuck nor want to give a fuck about the patriarchal system. they knew it existed but they openly rejected it. Same with the tv shows. Roseanne featured an episode in which David (her boyfriend) offends Darlene by saying that women should have babies because thats innate to their identity. He later apologizes and says that if she ever changed her mind that he would stay home and raise them. That it wouldnt all be burdened on her. The show naturally addressed these issues. It was just part of the plot. I doubt you would ever see this in shows or music today. I remember how big Alanis was back in the mid to late 90's. I was in middle school in the later 90's but I listened to her songs religiously. We need song writers like that again.
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
In contrast to what you are saying stephane, addressing the exploitation and misogyny in Hip Hop as a practice that rooted out of the capitalist endeavors of upper class white supremacist patriarchal executives is anything but disempowering to the black community. The power in naming the oppressive systems that perpetuate misogyny and racism is that in becoming more familiar with the way these systems work, those who choose to resist them can more effectively and creatively do so. How can we possibly rise above these oppressive systems and beat them if we do not name and identify them?
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
In contrast to what you are saying stephane, addressing the exploitation and misogyny in Hip Hop as a practice that rooted out of the capitalist endeavors of upper class white supremacist patriarchal executives is anything but disempowering to the black community. The power in naming the oppressive systems that perpetuate misogyny and racism is that in becoming more familiar with the way these systems work, those who choose to resist them can more effectively and creatively do so. How can we possibly rise above these oppressive systems and beat them if we do not name and identify them?
Addressing the exploitation and misogyny in Hip Hop as a practice that rooted out of the capitalist endeavors of upper class white supremacist patriarchal executives is anything but disempowering to the black community. The power in naming the oppressive systems that perpetuate misogyny and racism is that in becoming more familiar with the way these systems work, those who choose to resist them can more effectively and creatively do so. How can we possibly rise above these oppressive systems and beat them if we do not name and identify them?
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
I was just thinking about how white men need to be singled out even more. (I'm white, btw, and female.)
It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")
Also, while it is true that many black artists sell out to make money, it is also true that white men do not publicly stand up for women as a general rule. Indeed, who covered the misogynist shooting in Pittsburgh as a gender problem? It was not Nicholas Kristoff; it was Bob Herbert! We should be looking for allies in feminism, and white men have typically not shown a lot of interest in the media to do so.
The last time I checked, America was an institutionally racist country, dominated by affluent White males (even though, at the moment, they have a Black man - surrounded by White advisers - at 1600 Pennsylvania Av).
And Corporate America - including the music business - is the most thoroughly White dominated institution in America.
So yes, it's very appropriate to talk about racism.
That picture is in the worst possible taste since when is mocking someone injured and in pain "feminist"?
This.
...and if every person that complained about what they didn't like bought a cd by someone like Jean Grae you could retire this argument.
I just want to say that JIMMY BROOKS would never approve of Drake's music videos. You'd think that 10 million seasons on Degrassi would have taught Aubrey "Drake" Graham a little something.
WHAT WOULD EMMA SAY?!
Byron Hurt's 2006 documentary "Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes" addresses a lot of the ideas presented in this post. after showing the film on our campus this past spring, it started up a pretty good conversation on misogyny, homophobia, and violence in mainstream rap music and consumers' impact on the success of these agendas. i'd really recommend it!
When there's so much incredible, if not feminist at least anti-mysoginist underground hip hop, why even bother with the brothas. Go straight to the fantastic, talented, post-racial artists who are producing poetry with beats, not chauvinistic crap.
Well, fill us in, man!
Like...
Such as...
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here: yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points. I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. But looking at this post I see valid arguments but also seem some points that are horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here: yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points. I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. But looking at this post I see valid arguments but also seem some points that are horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
This
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. Looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post.
I can't seem to find the article, but some of my art is based on the hypocrisy of the exegesis of hip hop as misogynistic, completely ignoring (or pardoning?) rock. Rock music has a much, much longer history of misogyny (let alone racism).
Not to get all queer theory on yall, but I would like to point out the guitar as a phallus. The popular sounds of the guitar have become heavier, deeper, and more distorted since the 50's, in line with a quest for more masculine imagery. Guitars marketed towards metal guitarists are physically menacing, implying violence (check out some promotional images of Gorgoroth). Phallus + violence = ?
I really like metal musically, but I hate the bullshit that goes along with its fanbase. I want to start a feminist/queer metal band but interested folks are scant!
You could also say a guitar looks like a vagina. Held upright with the neck at 12 o'clock and the rounded end at 6 o' clock it looks like a vulva.
I can't seem to find the article, but some of my art is based on the hypocrisy of the exegesis of hip hop as misogynistic, completely ignoring (or pardoning?) rock. Rock music has a much, much longer history of misogyny (let alone racism).
Not to get all queer theory on yall, but I would like to point out the guitar as a phallus. The popular sounds of the guitar have become heavier, deeper, and more distorted since the 50's, in line with a quest for more masculine imagery. Guitars marketed towards metal guitarists are physically menacing, implying violence (check out some promotional images of Gorgoroth). Phallus + violence = ?
I really like metal musically, but I hate the bullshit that goes along with its fanbase. I want to start a feminist/queer metal band but interested folks are scant!
I can't seem to find the article, but some of my art is based on the hypocrisy of the exegesis of hip hop as misogynistic, completely ignoring (or pardoning?) rock. Rock music has a much, much longer history of misogyny (let alone racism).
Not to get all queer theory on yall, but I would like to point out the guitar as a phallus. The popular sounds of the guitar have become heavier, deeper, and more distorted since the 50's, in line with a quest for more masculine imagery. Guitars marketed towards metal guitarists are physically menacing, implying violence (check out some promotional images of Gorgoroth). Phallus + violence = ?
I really like metal musically, but I hate the bullshit that goes along with its fanbase. I want to start a feminist/queer metal band but interested folks are scant!
It absolutely not is something to lay at corporate America's feet.
However, white corporate america is the one producing and white ppl are the ones buying. White ppl account for 85% of rap album sales so to ignore the fact that they are the ones selling and buying does not accomplish anything either. Hip hop has turned into a ministrel show with white execs constructing a blackness that some ppl want to see and selling it. Black artists have a responsibility not to make garbage but at the end of the day it is about captalism. Even if black ppl refused to buy or listen to the music it wouldn't matter, the loss in profits would be miniscule. What would benefit would be self-esteem, respect and self-worth which I am all for. I think a lot of black ppl could benefit from not supporting this garbage, but at the end of the day that wouldn't make it go away because 85% of the market would still be there.
Okay. There are a lot of valid points here, yes, hip hop is horribly misogynistic, and capitalist. But, this argument is worn and is very tired. I've seen this same essay, but with no new points, except for the usual suspects: Your post to me sounds like this: "They came from the inner city,rags to riches. However these men are being exploited for their talent. It sucks, and they're really sexist, they talk trash about women..but what about the good old days of hip hop?" I've heard it before.
I applaud you for exposing others to some of the sexist undertones in hip hop culture. I am by no means defending the chauvinistic nature of hip hop. However, looking at this post I see valid arguments but also see some points that are condescending, horribly based in assumption, and it seems, a very limited knowledge of the black community, black history, and the mental state of black men as a whole. My head just exploded. I'll come back to this later, when I can better articulate my thoughts on this post
In contrast to what you are saying stephane, addressing the exploitation and misogyny in Hip Hop as a practice that rooted out of the capitalist endeavors of upper class white supremacist patriarchal executives is anything but disempowering to the black community. The power in naming the oppressive systems that perpetuate misogyny and racism is that in becoming more familiar with the way these systems work, those who choose to resist them can more effectively and creatively do so. How can we possibly rise above these oppressive systems and beat them if we do not name and identify them?
I can't seem to find the article, but some of my art is based on the hypocrisy of the exegesis of hip hop as misogynistic, completely ignoring (or pardoning?) rock. Rock music has a much, much longer history of misogyny (let alone racism).
Not to get all queer theory on yall, but I would like to point out the guitar as a phallus. The popular sounds of the guitar have become heavier, deeper, and more distorted since the 50's, in line with a quest for more masculine imagery. Guitars marketed towards metal guitarists are physically menacing, implying violence (check out some promotional images of Gorgoroth). Phallus + violence = ?
I really like metal musically, but I hate the bullshit that goes along with its fanbase. I want to start a feminist/queer metal band but interested folks are scant!
I totally agree with you it's like there is a narrative of hip hop = all the evil in the world that liberals/feminists and conservatives have agreed upon and none of them for the most part in these articles have any idea in hell what they're talking about.
I agree. I hate how hip hop receives all of the hate, however, rock & roll today and yesterday, has a lot of the same themes as hip hop. Look at some of the rock videos today, and you see plenty of white artists exploiting women and catering towards the mainstream. The problem with misogyny and lack of individuality in music isn't just something that is specifically hip hop; it's music in general. I just hate how hip hop seems to be the token scapegoat for all that is wrong with music nowadays.
Omigod! I am soo sorry for excessive posts! When my first post didn't work I pressed enter two more times.(But that entry fail message kept popping up, so I quit, lol.) I apologize for the ridiculous number of responses.
Good old boy`s club sounds so blamey, like there is a group of boys, keeping women from joining or advancing, or holding women back in general.
Only because less women than men are interested it does not mean it is the mens fault.
OK can we all check our own hidden racism before going forward? The insinuation here that white men are NOT misogynists that only black men are is total and complete BS and would be greatly appreciated if heads were removed from asses and people stopped this nonsense.
Thanks in advance.
Look, I don't have a problem with discussing certain aspects of my community that are fucked. Nobody is saying that hip-hop culture is alone in this. Nobody is saying that all hip-hop and rap artists are like this. But unfortunately there is a very visible mainstream (read MTV, BET) unsavory element that has essentially drowning out innovation.
I mean, Snoop was on the cover of Rolling Stone as "America's most lovable pimp" or some shit like that. That simply doesn't happen without some help from people in my community. Can I be pissed off about that?
Accusing SOME black hiphop artists of misogyny is not racist nor does it means that white men are not sexist or that only balck men are.
This. While I don't think that the post is speaking in completely general terms. I am sensing an undercurrent of subtle racism here.
This
How is it a "boy's club" when Rhianna is Jay Z's number one mentee? And I recall a few weeks back an article on a group of white female producers working together and making it big in Hollywood, why is that good and these guys helping each other bad?
Thats a rarity but superficial claims like this shouldnt be used as rules of thumb.
I think I'm confused by your statement, when you say superficial claims, shouldn't be made" what are you referring to, La reina's reply about Rihanna being Jay-z's mentee, or the notion that hip hop is a boys club. No snark intended, just trying to understand your point here.
One example of Jay-Z mentoring doesnt make it the rule. and you dont really know the details of what went on. Even when males mentor females it may still not be like when men mentor men. This seems to be the excemption and not the rule. Without a doubt rap is a boys club. I remember watching a special on VH1 about women and rap and the things that the women experienced was degrading. The women are ass and never the substance.
Exactly. Why is it seen as empowering when women, (read: white) get together, but it's seen as superficial and sexist, when black men do the same thing. I think that's a horrible double standard.
It IS sexist when men get together to promote negative attitudes about women. The women arent getting together to do that to men.
"It's not just the label executives who are to blame, it is the charge that the already powerful suburban white, male adolescents get from listening to violent and misogynist hip hop. If it were not for suburban sales, hip-hop likely would have remained an insightful form of expression. (See _Why White Kids Love Hip Hop_ by Bakari Kitwana-- especially the chapter, "Erasing Blackness.")"
I've always been told that it's suburban white GIRLS who buy the most music in this genre. I can't find anything by googling - anyone else better skilled at their search engine?
An interesting article about who really buys rap .
http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2006/07/15/is-hip-hops-audience-really-80-white/
This was an interesting post, I'd like to read more about hip-hop and history. I like to listen to old school rap on some radio stations, and I always wonder "what happened?" because of all the activist style rhymes, and today we don't really hear that on the radio (Although its being made still, its just not on the radio). I didn't know what had changed (apparently in the 90's.) If it got on the radio back then, it must have been making money. And lately (with the "trendiness" of issues such as Save Darfur, Project Red, Going Green, etc (which even people like Lindsay Lohan are encouraging), there has to be a way to make activist or feminist hip-hop profitable. The question is, would anyone want it that way?
Also: Whenever I hear a song that has a female singing the hook, but isn't necessarily the main artist, it doesn't credit her. Like a song by Akon is 'Akon ft. Eminem' but so often if a girl is singing on it, she's not given that kind of a credit. Is there a legal reason for that, or are female backround singers just that easy to come by?
The last sentence of that article stephane referenced is telling:
"... programmers and industry experts ... hawk Black gangsterism and stereotypes and make it appear as if its a vital part of Black culture and a true representation of Hip Hop."
That's an awesome line: whites shouldn't assume that these "values" are integral to the black community just because songs on the radio say so. I think the relationship between hip hop and the black community is really complicated.
I do think that hip hop and violence have a direct effect on young people of color, however. I am a teacher, and some of my black female students were talking about the whole Rihanna thing when it happened, and how it was her fault that she was beaten.
That is the real impact of violence in hip hop, that is afects young people of color, indoctrinating them in this system of misogyny and violence that doesn't reflect black culture, but certainly influences it in staggering ways.
that "it affects" young people. sorry!
"That is the real impact of violence in hip hop, that is afects young people of color, indoctrinating them in this system of misogyny and violence that doesn't reflect black culture"
Are you implying that there is a black culture devoid of sexism before hiphop intils sexism in it ?
I don't believe it .
The majority of black men and white men are sexist and were sexist before gangsta rap emerged .
"I think the relationship between hip hop and the black community is really complicated. "
i agree
"That is the real impact of violence in hip hop, that is afects young people of color, indoctrinating them in this system of misogyny and violence that doesn't reflect black culture, but certainly influences it in staggering ways."
I'll try to organize my thoughts :
_ I feel that misogynist rap doesn't reflect more black or white misogyny but it reflects BOTH white and black men misogyny equally . It simply enable MEN of all color, to vent their sexism .
_ i feel that the reason why black artists are the one who sing these lyrics is that it enable sexist men and women of ALL COLOR to say that the criticism of misogyny in rap is racism .
_ i feel that it's a mecanism that in the end benefits the sexism of men of ALL COLOR at the EXPANSE of women and non-sexist black men.
Non sexist black and white men have to unite to fight this mecanism .
This sure is a tough issue .