Dear Readers of the Community Blog, I need to rant. Any suggestions are welcome.
I work at a gym. When my boss hired me as a "desk girl" (yes, that's what he calls them, even though you have to be 18 to work for the company), I was his favorite. He routinely told people what an assett I was to the gym and how he wished I wasn't leaving for school in the fall, so I could be a membership counselor for him. Believe me, I had a terrible time reconciling this with my feminism. After a few weeks, he fired a bunch of people and promoted me to sales, or membership counseling as we call it. I was so excited - counselors make crazy good commission.
Within a few days, it was obvious that my place in the gym had changed.
The sales manager quite literally said to me he didn't like me anymore now that I was taking money out of his pocket. The boss began hounding me - harder than ANY of the men - to go out and generate business. I have told him that it makes me uncomfortable to be walking around putting fliers on cars by myself, because if someone gets angry I may not be able to defend myself. He refuses to send another staff member with me. There will be times when all the male sales people and the managers will be sitting around a computer shooting the shit and when I join the conversation, he says go make some phone calls.
I knew that I was hired because I was cute and enthusiastic (literally, he said that) but it was just a summer job and I knew I could do well at it, so I took the opportunity. Now, I feel as though I am completely reaping what I sowed. I am "the girl." I am the butt of every joke. In my first month, I did the 2nd most volume of all the sales people, but when asking a question about my (perpetually incorrect) commission, the sales manager says to me "You don't sell anything, so you don't even count."
I'm leaving this job in a few weeks to go to school, but I am miserable every minute I'm there (6 days a week). I'm coming back next summer hopefully to be a personal trainer and not a counselor, as there is no sales component to training.
Should I say anything about it? How do I get the respect I deserve in the work place? Help me!
Just to clarify - the sales manager and the boss are different people. There is one other membership counselor who is a female, but she is treated like one of the boys.
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oh... dear. well obviously their behavior is discriminatory. it is always (sadly) hard to prove. BUT, that said, who cares if it's 'just a summer job'. some other woman will be filling that spot and she TOO will feel that burden. what state do you live in? my knee jerk reaction is to at least figure out how to handle it through proper legal channels. so look under your state and under 'employment' and 'discrimination' here:
http://www.lawhelp.org/
and call around just to get a sense of what you could do, and to get some help.
He hired my replacement today. My replacement is male. He told me once in the past he doesn't like to hire females for a sales position because "women don't want to take money from people if the person doesn't have the money to spend." In other words, he wants sales people that don't give a shit about the buyer's financial status. I don't want to file any legal action because earlier, when questioned about sexual harassment/discrimination, I said there was none. I KNOW I'll lose if i tried now.
On a side note - I just realized my username is my actual name. How the fuck do I change that??
He hired my replacement today. My replacement is male. He told me once in the past he doesn't like to hire females for a sales position because "women don't want to take money from people if the person doesn't have the money to spend." In other words, he wants sales people that don't give a shit about the buyer's financial status. I don't want to file any legal action because earlier, when questioned about sexual harassment/discrimination, I said there was none. I KNOW I'll lose if i tried now.
On a side note - I just realized my username is my actual name. How the fuck do I change that??
He hired my replacement today. My replacement is male. He told me once in the past he doesn't like to hire females for a sales position because "women don't want to take money from people if the person doesn't have the money to spend." In other words, he wants sales people that don't give a shit about the buyer's financial status. I don't want to file any legal action because earlier, when questioned about sexual harassment/discrimination, I said there was none. I KNOW I'll lose if i tried now.
On a side note - I just realized my username is my actual name. How the fuck do I change that??
It seems like your boss liked you more when you were in a position of less power (as he probably thinks it should be) and when you got promoted, despite the fact that HE was the one who promoted you, I guess something changed in the dynamic. The sales manager might feel threatened because you did your previous job so well and he doesn't want to feel "emasculated" because a woman does the job better than he does.
That really sucks that you aren't allowed to joke around with them, too. Since this is a summer job and the summer is almost over, though, maybe you could just tough it out. Alternately, you could pick a quiet moment when things aren't hectic and talk to your boss about his and others' treatment of you if you feel comfortable with that. But certainly don't do it if you would feel weird, of course.
Quit that job. Any money it brings you isn't worth your self-respect. And tell those assholes to go fuck themselves.
I don't know the poster's personal history, but I feel I have to point out that quitting might not be an option. Not everyone is in a position to tell their bosses "fuck you" and just walk out. My work place is sexist as hell, but I'm also well paid (for an hourly position) and while it might seem like a lack of self respect on my part, to me having this job is the difference between paying for college. To me it means paying off medical bills left uncovered because my family isn't in a financial position to afford insurance. To me it's facing a sexist boss or not paying rent. My one attempt at speaking up ended in a more hostile working environment, along with a noticeable cut in hours.
All I'm saying is to remember not everyone comes from homes where they can just up and quit when things get bad.
reat point. Thank you for this.
OP, it sounds like you have a very hard decision to make. Do you think that if you quit now, do you have enough money to last you throughout the remainder of the summer, or do you need those last few paychecks. I would say that if you are in a good place now financially, go ahead and give them the finger.)Not literally, but figuratively. As much as everyone would like to have an epic showdown with their boss, remember that how you leave a job, can affect how you get hired for another position later on life.) File a complaint, even if you don't think it's worth it. Believe me, you will sleep better at night. However, if you are dependent on that job for the next few weeks, all I can say is suck it up, and the day that you leave, set up a meeting with your supervisors, air out your grievances, file the complaint, and keep it movin'.G
Actually, a LOT of people don't have the luxury of quitting a job just because they are being abused!
Most people work because they need the money and, without the money, they would suffer extreme hardship.
Only a very few privileged people can just up and quit a job any time they want with no economic consequences.
Step 1: Keep your own records, keep a folder with the information of all the sales you made so when your commission is wrong you can point it out and back up your claim.
Step 2: Don't wait to be asked to make some calls, just do it and then when all the guys are shooting the shit bring in your paperwork or messages or what ever from the calls and make a point of letting them see you working when they are just being lazy. Make it into a joke "They are lazy and you work hard" but a joke with a little bit of a bite to it.
Step 3: If the job requires you to go and place flyers on your own you need to do it. If there is a quota do it at the time you feel most comfortable but please don't request special treatment because that is what you are already getting and you don't seem to like it very much. Now, if other people are allowed/encourage to go out in pairs/teams you need to make friends.
Step 4: Call them on their BS.
Special treatment?
Yeah being treated sexist is sooo special!
My initial reaction is to say, go with Arakiba. If you're the one doing all the work, you'll hurt them harder by leaving than by anything else you can do. Just make sure you have one person you can use as a reference for future job applications.
But if for some reason you really need the money and can't just bail, then force them to either treat you like everyone else or treat everyone else like you. If they're all sitting around talking, sit with them. You don't have to say anything, just sit there. If they're uncomfortable, they may well go back to work without a word. If your boss tells you to go do something useful, say only if the others do too.
I'm not going to tell you it's easy, because it's not, especially if you've never done something like that before. But the sooner you learn how to show some spine (showing it is far different than simply having it), the easier it will be in the future. And that's a useful skill to have.
In any case, why in the world are you considering going back to work there next summer? Find something else.
Crap, I guess I can't edit.. forgot to say, if you stand up to them, you could in theory get fired. But you know what? If the job is awful, treat it like you're playing with house money. If they dump you, they've taken all that stress off your shoulders. And most employers don't check with old bosses (references at most), so you don't need to worry much about future job possibilities being affected by it. Just say you quit and explain how poorly you were treated.
I'm going to have to agree with Edgy1004 on this one. Even if you choose to quit, I wouldn't act out, or talk back to your boss, or tell him off, as these things could just get you into more trouble, or sit on your permanent record; some bosses do call past bosses. Play it smart and keep records of EVERYTHING. Times, dates, pay amount versus agreed upon pay amount, sales records, commissions, etc. Keep records of all these things, including treatment, things that were said to you, etc. If you can gather witnesses in an indiscreet way, all the better. When the time is right, you can present the sales/payment records to your boss, and point out diplomatically how they don't add up. If he still gives you a hard time, take that stuff to a lawyer. You have gathered all the evidence, and it should be an open and closed case. Do not let your boss know what you are doing, as it will give him opportunity to build a bogus case against you.
Also, as Edgy1004 said, don't ask for special treatment. Just do your job to the best of your ability. When the time is right, and you've gathered all the evidence, you can slap him with it.
I'm going to have to agree with Edgy1004 on this one. Even if you choose to quit, I wouldn't act out, or talk back to your boss, or tell him off, as these things could just get you into more trouble, or sit on your permanent record; some bosses do call past bosses. Play it smart and keep records of EVERYTHING. Times, dates, pay amount versus agreed upon pay amount, sales records, commissions, etc. Keep records of all these things, including treatment, things that were said to you, etc. If you can gather witnesses in an indiscreet way, all the better. When the time is right, you can present the sales/payment records to your boss, and point out diplomatically how they don't add up. If he still gives you a hard time, take that stuff to a lawyer. You have gathered all the evidence, and it should be an open and closed case. Do not let your boss know what you are doing, as it will give him opportunity to build a bogus case against you.
Also, as Edgy1004 said, don't ask for special treatment. Just do your job to the best of your ability. When the time is right, and you've gathered all the evidence, you can slap him with it.
I'm going to have to agree with Edgy1004 on this one. Even if you choose to quit, I wouldn't act out, or talk back to your boss, or tell him off, as these things could just get you into more trouble, or sit on your permanent record; some bosses do call past bosses. Play it smart and keep records of EVERYTHING. Times, dates, pay amount versus agreed upon pay amount, sales records, commissions, etc. Keep records of all these things, including treatment, things that were said to you, etc. If you can gather witnesses in an indiscreet way, all the better. When the time is right, you can present the sales/payment records to your boss, and point out diplomatically how they don't add up. If he still gives you a hard time, take that stuff to a lawyer. You have gathered all the evidence, and it should be an open and closed case. Do not let your boss know what you are doing, as it will give him opportunity to build a bogus case against you.
Also, as Edgy1004 said, don't ask for special treatment. Just do your job to the best of your ability. When the time is right, and you've gathered all the evidence, you can slap him with it.
I'm going to have to agree with Edgy1004 on this one. Even if you choose to quit, I wouldn't act out, or talk back to your boss, or tell him off, as these things could just get you into more trouble, or sit on your permanent record; some bosses do call past bosses. Play it smart and keep records of EVERYTHING. Times, dates, pay amount versus agreed upon pay amount, sales records, commissions, etc. Keep records of all these things, including treatment, things that were said to you, etc. If you can gather witnesses in an indiscreet way, all the better. When the time is right, you can present the sales/payment records to your boss, and point out diplomatically how they don't add up. If he still gives you a hard time, take that stuff to a lawyer. You have gathered all the evidence, and it should be an open and closed case. Do not let your boss know what you are doing, as it will give him opportunity to build a bogus case against you.
Also, as Edgy1004 said, don't ask for special treatment. Just do your job to the best of your ability. When the time is right, and you've gathered all the evidence, you can slap him with it.
I'm going to have to agree with Edgy1004 on this one. Even if you choose to quit, I wouldn't act out, or talk back to your boss, or tell him off, as these things could just get you into more trouble, or sit on your permanent record; some bosses do call past bosses. Play it smart and keep records of EVERYTHING. Times, dates, pay amount versus agreed upon pay amount, sales records, commissions, etc. Keep records of all these things, including treatment, things that were said to you, etc. If you can gather witnesses in an indiscreet way, all the better. When the time is right, you can present the sales/payment records to your boss, and point out diplomatically how they don't add up. If he still gives you a hard time, take that stuff to a lawyer. You have gathered all the evidence, and it should be an open and closed case. Do not let your boss know what you are doing, as it will give him opportunity to build a bogus case against you.
Also, as Edgy1004 said, don't ask for special treatment. Just do your job to the best of your ability. When the time is right, and you've gathered all the evidence, you can slap him with it.
I say you need to quit your job. Tell them what a bunch of assholes they are and report them to the better business bureau, OCEA, and the attorney general. There are laws in this country and especially if there is a pay discrepency where there shouldn't be you have a legal leg to stand on. It isn't right and you need to do something about it, if not for yourself for the next unsuspecting woman who walks through those front doors and applies for the job you hold now. These are the type of men who make me sick and no one should have to live with this harrassment in the work place
Not everyone is privileged enough that they can quit their job at a moment's notice for any reason, including workplace sexism and/or sexual harassment. I understand that would be the best option in many cases, but that is not an option available to millions of people. I deal with workplace sexism, in two of my previous jobs and the one I have now. Telling her she should quit her job is classist and probably not helpful advice.
Anyway: thank you for posting this, jrwittenburg/Revolutionarily Speaking. Dealing with workplace sexism is horrible. I find it to be emotionally exhausting. When it happens to me, I feel like someone has thrown a cold drink in my face in the middle of a crowded place. If I were you, since you've made it clear in your comment above that you can't just quit, I would leave behind letters for your boss and your sales manager on your last day, detailing their unequal treatment and all the major incidences of workplace sexism, emphasizing the fact that you were an exemplary employee. Tell them who you are: an intelligent, competent, autonomous adult, not a "girl," and not any less of a valuable and deserving employee because you are female. They might just throw away the letters, but it could be an act of closure for you. Say whatever you want, whatever you need to, whatever you wish you could've said. You owe them no respect or concern for their feelings because at that point, you don't work for them anyone.
Also, since I'm a bitch and proud of it, I'd tell all the female gym members all about the boss and sales manager's behavior and treatment of you. They deserve to lose some business.
I know what its like to be stuck at a crappy job with no option because you have bills to pay. If I didn't work my current crappy job I would not be able to pay for school, so that I will no longer be trapped in this situation in her situation however, she can quit and file for unemployment because she can prove her working conditions were a violation of her rights as an employee. That way she can pay the bills while she is finding another job and still not have to work under such conditions. At the very least she needs to report them to OCEA. There is no reason why we need to work under these conditions its not acceptable and we do have rights in these situations
She can file for Unemployment Insurance - and the employer can contest it.
Depending on the state, her benefits may be delayed for weeks, or even months, until the hearing happens.
Their lawyer can also ask for continuances, which can delay her getting paid even further.
Beyond that, even if her state Department of Labor does approve her benefits, she might not get her first check for 3 to 12 weeks.
She should file a complaint with her state's Human Rights Division or whatever they call it in her jurisdiction.
But, in the real world, she'll get a hearing in 6 months to 2 years - plenty of time for her boss and his lawyer to get all their ducks in a row and make sure they win the case.
So, as awful as it sounds, her most realistic option might be to just endure this job for the rest of the summer.
success is the best revenge
success is the best revenge
"There is one other membership counselor who is a female, but she is treated like one of the boys."
This caught my eye. Do you have any idea why they're treating her differently than you?
I took a bit of a stand today. Three people came in (a family) and without asking whose turn it was, I toured them and sold them. When questioned, I cited the fact that I am the only Spanish speaker on the sales team, so it was my responsibility to help them because I could fully explain the contract to them while others cannot. I did this because of how many times it has Bern done to me without retribution.
Just to point out, I am almost fluent in Spanish but am white. I say this just so it doesn't lead you to question if I am being discriminated against for being Latina, as I'm not. As a matter of fact, we are a pretty diverse team : 3 Caucasians, a man who identifies as Arabic, a Puerto Rican man(who wasn't there at the time) and the boss is African-American. Anyways, I should emphasize 3 things: I can't quit the job, there isn't really sexual harassment happening and I don't want to take any legal action. I just want to figure out how to handle these guys. And the other sales woman? Not sure why they treat her differently. Maybe because she's married and 7 years older than me and a navy vet.
More often than not, women who get treated like one of the guys do so because they can hang with the guys conversationally. They find the idiotic things guys do amusing rather than off-putting. If the other woman is a Navy vet, that alone would go a long, long way towards her understanding of how to deal with a group of average men.
But, of course, that's a generalization and not true in all cases. Why don't you ask her why she gets treated like one of the crew? It may not be something you want to copy, but better to know and make the informed decision not to play the game than wonder blindly.
By the way, good on you for taking a shot back at them. A lot of times in situations like this, that's the quickest and most effective way to handle the situation. I meet so many people who don't want to do that because they're concerned about getting the toolbags to like them, but they've got it backwards. If these people are treating you poorly, not only do you have no reason to try and play nice, but sometimes fighting back is actually what makes them like (or at least respect) you.
I'll leave it to others to comment on your current situation, by why the hell would you want to return next summer and contribute to this company? What, you think that you've gone from "desk girl" to "the (sales) girl" but when you go to being a personal trainer it will suddenly be rosy? Stay there, and you're in for more bullshit, and you're supporting their organization to boot.
You've got the option to find a better, less backwards summer job next year. They exist. Going back is just asking for another helping of shit. And after you leave (and after securing a new job with whatever recommendations from that boss you may have needed), go ahead and call that boss back and let him know why you won't be working for him again. His staff are his problem, but they don't have to be yours.
I should explain why I want to return as a personal trainer next year. I'm going away to college in two weeks, but next year I'm transferring somewhere closer to home but equally as good for my education. This is because my fiancé and I want to move in together and start saving for a house. Secondly, personal training is a separate department with it's own manager. The fitness manager at my gym is a wonderful, respectful man with whom I have a wonderful relationship and who frequently asks me to join his department. I didn't want to do that before getting my certification because you make more money with it. Furthermore, I've waitressed since I was 16, be this situation is much better. Either way, everyone seems to be easing up. We had a bad first week but sales are perking up. Things are better. I was just super mad, I guess.
You had reason to be super mad! I'm glad that your future manager sounds like a much better person to work for. In the future, if things continue to improve, you should write a new Community post about what steps you took to react to the sexism and how your coworkers responded.
I'm a afraid this is how the business world works. Your boss never liked you, he was just manipulating you. He's nice to you to get stuff out of you.
If he think you're cute, he figures you could get customers by flirting with them and stuff. And as a sales person he figured he could get more sales out of you by being mean to you. He probably thinks he can bully you and if he pressures you you'll do what you need to to get the sales.
The other sales people might think you are a threat because you really can sell better than them. It could also just be that they all know each other and just don't feel like including new people.
Good luck with everything. If you can build up a decent career you can probably get more respect and leave shit environments.
I'm a afraid this is how the business world works. Your boss never liked you, he was just manipulating you. He's nice to you to get stuff out of you.
If he think you're cute, he figures you could get customers by flirting with them and stuff. And as a sales person he figured he could get more sales out of you by being mean to you. He probably thinks he can bully you and if he pressures you you'll do what you need to to get the sales.
The other sales people might think you are a threat because you really can sell better than them. It could also just be that they all know each other and just don't feel like including new people.
Good luck with everything. If you can build up a decent career you can probably get more respect and leave shit environments.
I'm a afraid this is how the business world works. Your boss never liked you, he was just manipulating you. He's nice to you to get stuff out of you.
If he think you're cute, he figures you could get customers by flirting with them and stuff. And as a sales person he figured he could get more sales out of you by being mean to you. He probably thinks he can bully you and if he pressures you you'll do what you need to to get the sales.
The other sales people might think you are a threat because you really can sell better than them. It could also just be that they all know each other and just don't feel like including new people.
Good luck with everything. If you can build up a decent career you can probably get more respect and leave shit environments.
I'm a afraid this is how the business world works. Your boss never liked you, he was just manipulating you. He's nice to you to get stuff out of you.
If he think you're cute, he figures you could get customers by flirting with them and stuff. And as a sales person he figured he could get more sales out of you by being mean to you. He probably thinks he can bully you and if he pressures you you'll do what you need to to get the sales.
The other sales people might think you are a threat because you really can sell better than them. It could also just be that they all know each other and just don't feel like including new people.
Good luck with everything. If you can build up a decent career you can probably get more respect and leave shit environments.
Time for follow up
I have exactly 9 days left before I am done and then I embark on the college journey. As unbecoming as this is, I miss my fiance already. Anyways.
The boss was super accommodating the other day when I had to leave for a family emergency and he is taking somewhat of a stand against the sales manager who has been so rude to me. At that point, I had decided to let it go. Then, Wednesday evening when I got back, the boss needed someone to cover daycare because the day care attendant had called in sick. Usually the day care isn't that busy and I would have had plenty of time to still complete my sales duties. Not Wednesday. I had like, 9 kids all spread out over the 4 hour period meaning 4 of my 7 hours were spent getting paid less than minimum wage to not do my job. The boss said to me, "I'm really sorry, couldn't get anyone to cover Nicole, you can leave early if you want." So I did. Thursday was my day off and I'm going back today, but I am so fricken sick of this place. I'm not going to get anywhere near my goals this month because of all this crap and this can definitely prevent me from getting promoted next year.
Not to mention - he gave me a D+ on my review. Everyone else did pretty poorly too. July was a terrible month. But for June, when I was desk, I got 100%. GO fucking figure.
Thanks for listening again ladies!