I have come across a lot of viewpoints on female strippers and whether or not they are exploited etc.. but very little on male strippers and men in the sex industry in general.
I'm 20 years old and among my peers male strippers like Chippendales are dismissed as 'gay' and the women who go are apparently giggling more than salivating.
Now I've been to a male strip show in Vegas and I thought some of the guys were gorgeous , others were over-tanned and over-oiled but I enjoyed the night as did my friends and here we were thinking women weren't visual.lol!. One of the things that interested me was that afterwards the guys came out to greet their 'fans' and hawk signed calenders. I can't imagine female strippers mingling like this nor can I imagine any of my male friends wanting an autograph!
So male strip shows tend to be more 'burlesque' , even 'concerty' in nature than lapdancing clubs but they are still taking their clothes off and many male strippers work solo giving lapdances at parties.
I'm wondering why there isn't more about male strippers being exploited/objectified.
Why don't moralists protests outside a Chippendales show. I know
where I gre up they were frequently protesting outside gentlemen's
clubs. Is it that there is an assumption that women don't like sex and
it is something that they 'give up' for men and therefore female
strippers are victims whereas for men who are always 'up for it'
stripping is a good way to earn cash and bed women? I've also noticed
that the rare few times when male strippers are in the media they
usually mention that they love their job and love entertaining the
ladies there seems to be pressure on female strippers to say they
dislike their job ot at best to say they are just doing it to support a
child or pay for college. In fact a google search of male strippers
will bring several questions posted on yahoo answers from young men who
want to be strippers and there are even more questions from those who
want to go into porn. I seems that these are 'dream jobs' for men.
In debates on pornography I've also noticed that the focus is nearly
always on the female performer and there is an assumption that she
hates her job, that she was abused as a child etc.. but there is also
an assumption that the male actor is just one lucky dude! In fact if
you click on any of the sites that offer free porn the clips are almost
always titled something like 'Lucky guy bangs two filthy sluts' (the
issues here deserve a post of their own!).
So my question for discussion really is how do people here view male strippers.
Do you think they are objectified/exploited? Why do you think female
sex works and treated differently than male sex workers. And of course
anything else you would like to add.
This is my first post so apologies if it isn't too coherent!
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Actually, Chippendales do get demonstrations, and male shows get far more outcry, per show capita, than female shows do.
One question to ask is "Are male strippers exploited?" There might be some individuals who are (just as there are individual female strippers who are not), but examining the phenomenon as a whole, not really. I refuse to go to any sexualized show b/c they are part of the same gestalt. Anecdotes from my friends are that male strip shows are a very different thing from female strip shows - a guy friend reported that the *women* at male strip shows are more taken advantage of than the men. Essentially, the same sexual dynamic of woman-as-consumed and male-as-consumer plays out between male strippers and their audience as between female strippers and their audience. Kind of weird, b/c we automatically think of the stripper as the consumed one.
You are right that there is not enough scholarly work or feminist analysis on the subject. I know of one book, but the name escapes me. It is written by a former Chippendale, and describes his experiences. I would Google for the title, but I am at work and am afraid of what will come up on that search.
Jay www.malestripperuk.co.uk says excellent
I think it's just as objectifying for men as it is for the women who have bought into this twisted, bastardized version of feminism that makes them believe that if they're in control of debasing themselves that it's somehow empowering.
Oddly, it's almost as if objectification has been made equal between the sexes, but certainly the established power dynamics have not been. What a depressing thought---that we might be equal in what we are trying to get rid of but not in what we aim to be.
The reason it's hard to view male strippers or porn stars as exploited is because there are dudes everywhere who swear up and down the line they would do that job if they had the body/dick for it. Now, could they actually pull it off if magically transformed in the necessary ways? Some could. Most would freak out from stage fright and bail. But the perception is that since lots of guys would, the ones who actually do it must want to.
Viewed another way, if a guy was leery about being in the sex industry, but he was so built or hot or hung or what have you that people pushed him into it and convinced him to stay in the job even if he didn't really like it, that would be an example of exploitation. (This tends to be the view of what happens to female strippers- in many cases rightly so.) But you never get the idea that this happens because of the perception that anyone who doesn't want the job is easily replaced. This would be a great basis for a study, though- is that perception accurate?
Re: treatment of women at male shows- as I've heard it (obviously secondhand), you could say the women are taken advantage of, but the mindset is similar to the current vampire craze. It's part of a power dynamic involving a powerful male object that the women involved actually want. The fact that, in terms of equality in actions, the women come out on the low end, is irrelevant. And the stripper is catering to their desire for that.
It's easy to see how this can be problematic. In a situation like that, part of the stripper's job is to be aggressive. It must happen that he will act aggressively towards women who would rather just sit in the corner and chill. I would assume part of his job is also to try and draw some of the wavering ones into the party rather than just pay attention to the ones who are obviously randy- the more people that are able to have a good time, the more repeat business the club/show receives. So he has to make judgment calls on who will be receptive, and sometimes he'll be wrong.
If all women who are not interested tell him no right away, then ideally this should not be a problem (I'm sure it is some places). But, as we well know, many women are stuck with the mindset of not being able to say no quite so easily. So when that happens, they're both in a hard spot. He's working his mojo, as it were, she wants no part of it, and they're not communicating about anything. How do you fix that, though? Sign outside the front door telling customers what to expect? I really don't know.
In all my years as a friendly, fellow stripper to too many strippers to count, teaching pole tricks, make-up tricks, sensual self defense techniques, hypnosis-
I did not ever encounter a single stripper who went into the work because she was prodded by others. EVERY single one I EVER spoke to over the course of 7 plus years started out of FINANCIAL DESPERATION. And more strippers keep it a secret ion their personal life than not.
You're confusing sex work stereotypes- the street walkers are pressured into it? Don't you watch Lifetime movies and hip hop movies written and directed by white men?
get your prejudice in order.
You are projecting your fantasy onto strippers, no different than a customer does, except you aren't paying!
Get your money out, go to the club and express your opinion with some money backing your research for the strippers you are judging, assuming on and projected your "feminist" fantasy on.
You are no better when you prejudge and assume than those you despise.
I have little to add, except to suggest the essay below.
You can also find such essays about masculinity on itunes, under "beyond masculinity." All downloads are free. While the issues written are geared toward queer men and masculinity, I think the essay before speaks succintly of male stripping and the question you posed.
http://www.beyondmasculinity.com/articles/jost.php
So my question for discussion really is how do people here view male strippers.
Do you think they are objectified/exploited?
I've only known 1 male stripper and I don't know enough about male strip clubs to form an opinion.
But in general, I think objectification can apply to anyone. For example, when advertising references people's body parts, sizes, shapes, measurements: can you imagine a club promising only men with 9+ inch penises? And we've all heard of signs and stickers saying "no fat chicks", well what about "no small dicks"? That's objectifying.
Also subjecting men to racial stereotypes and labels is objectifying; and if derogatory names are being used to describe them--like "thugs" and things like this.
Why do you think female sex workers are treated differently than male sex workers.
Because women are still seen as lesser-valued beings for actively participating in any sex/sensuality/nudity that is not within the traditional male-female patriarchal union. This actually extends throughout all segments of life though, not just sex work. Yeah we pretend to celebrate "whores" but only when they behave; any misstep and we love to see them fall and then to kick them while they are down. Ms. Tequila is the latest example.
As far as giggling at strip clubs, I think this reaction to male strippers is cultural more than sex related. We just don't give a lot of men a lot of latitude for fluid, sensual movement in N. America likely due to homophobia. But this is not universally true for all cultures--that's not to say that these other cultures which allow men more latitude aren't homophobic as hell either.
Personally, I'll skip the strip club. If I want to enjoy men dancing, I'd rather simply go dancing with a man or join a dancing club or something like that; of course these groups are always overloaded with women, but I would totally pay for some swanky dance lessons at a "ladies club" or something like that, lol. A nice male body just seems wasted if I can press up against him a little :)
I don't think it has anything to do with not being visual or some kind of repressed female sexuality though. And I'm sort of disappointed by a tone that I've been hearing lately as if women are unfortunate "broken" creatures. It's like we've taken male sexuality and turned it into this extreme caricature in our culture and now we keep asking why more women don't behave like this...it doesn't make sense to me.
"The women are being taken advantage of"
I know more than one woman who stripped, back in the day, who would smack you down (verbally) for that comment.
Women who strip choose to work there. I made a choice, you can read my journal for more about that.
Our choices may not be as awesome as yours (if you're privileged) but, it's still a choice. It probably beats the hell out of living section 8 and working at McDs.
The differences in male and female conditioning in our culture cause the differences in "strip tease" acts.
Female strippers are paid as much for their companionship from song to song as they are to be gazed at (and in recent years, touched by as well). Men in our culture are not encouraged to open up to their friends and mostly don't want to appear weak to their female partners. Strippers listen as much as if not more than they show themselves.
Why male strippers do not experience the same stigma female strippers experience, goes back to the conditioning that has the masses thinking a "good" woman doesn't want or enjoy sex . Men supposedly want sex so badly, the idea that some have figured out how to get PAID for sexual adoration (and touching now too?) is considered heroic.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for men who experience as much stigma as women who strip-
look to the straight dancers at gay clubs.
http://i_muse.livejournal.com/
I know more than one woman who stripped, back in the day, who would smack you down (verbally) for that comment. Women who strip choose to work there. I made a choice...Our choices may not be as awesome as yours (if you're privileged) but, it's still a choice. It probably beats the hell out of living section 8 and working at McDs.
People do not like to label themselves as victims because victims are perceived as weak and needy. But if you are on the receiving end of something unjust that makes you a victim and there is nothing wrong with that label. The problem is the stigma behind it and of course blaming the victim for "the choices" the victim supposedly made to deserve the abuse.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your story but it sounds like the reason you went into this profession was because you wanted to make money. This reminds me of the endless amounts of people in third world countries who work for 10 cents a day sewing soccer balls to support their families. They take those jobs because they pay "well". I would say that these people are victims. Yes, they made a choice to take those jobs but that does not mean they were not victims of an oppressive and exploitative economic system. If your choices are limited to what exploitative job you can pick of course you'll pick the one that pays best. (Working at McDonalds is still exploitation of worker and human rights).
Therefore I would still say that if you choose to work in the sex industry because you need to make money because nothing else pays well enough, that you are being taken advantage of at that point and time. Because if you were given more choices for jobs that pay well, you would probably pick something different than stripping.
So even though there might be plenty of people who would retort to the "being taken advantage of" statement that doesn't mean they are not being taken advantage of in the first place. Making a choice between exploitative careers doesn't really make it a choice of career but more of a means of survival. A choice, doesn't mean freedom from oppression.
Women go to those clubs to "go Wild!" and "Let Loose! Woohoo!"
Men go because they are lonely, or for a bachelor party in which they are supposed to feel like this is their last chance at freedom, youth, happiness, etc. As if they have been trapped, when in reality, men benefit from marriage partnerships more than women do.
The men are more stage oriented. When they mingle, it isn't to have therapeutic conversations, but to "get" the woman to go for it.
Women fight off (bouncers used to for them) men who try to "go for it"
and push past the limits.
as for the definition of objectification and who is and is not objectified- It's been discussed at length here before and on the post I wrote at least a year ago, in the comments.
I really don't have the energy for a sex work debate right now, but I can never seem to 'just say no.' So I'll just drop in to leave a quick comment: There IS a reason why women out number men in the sex industry. Well, there are multiple reasons... and I think they really get to the heart of why I'm anti-sex work: it's not at all about sexual liberation for the majority of those involved.
Did I miss something here, where is the word liberation? In my comment, I could have mentioned survival that can lead to thriving well enough to own a computer and come on here and talk back to comments like that, but, I did not say liberation. Did anyone here?
Though, you can find spiritual, mental, emotional liberation in a thousand unique ways if you so choose, I don't think anyone on this post was not connecting sex work and liberation.
in my personal, real life case, not an academics fantasy-
I am glad I had the strip clubs to rely on as I was too sick on and off (asthma) to work at McDs or as a maid. As it turned out, I did well enough financially and had lots of time to raise my son and educate us both.
You had just enough energy to come on a site and try to dump a bomb- lovely communication technique. Is that liberating for you?
Another relevant question is : Why do so few women frequent these sort of clubs? Obviously there would be more of them if there was a market.
The answer is, in part, female oppression. On average women have less leisure time, less money, and more responsiblities (domestic, child care, etc). Women tend not to have the time and resources to oppress men as much as men can women.