At one time in my life if I heard someone say anything akin to "Fuck the police!" I assumed they must be a criminal. After living in Oklahoma City for three years, I can say that those days are over. Here are a few fun anecdotes from my time there:
1. I'm standing outside the apartment of someone I know talking on the phone when a cop comes bounding up the stairs. When he gets to the top he says into his walkee talkee "Never mind. Its a female." Turns out he saw a "suspicious white male" lurking about. He then warned me that I shouldn't be out alone at night because there were scary mean people around. Really? You mean like...me? Because I was your suspect.
2. Then there was the time that the cop stopped a car that I was in with 2 guys. He kept referring to us as "Boys." "Young men" etc. Now, contrary to what you may believe from the story before, I don't look like a guy. I'm a pretty curvy woman, and that day I was wearing something that showed my curves. Which means one of two things. Either, it was the basic Oklahoma City assumption that all ladies have long hair and all men have short hair, or the cop simply saw no reason to address the woman in the car. Leave the business up to the big strong men.
3. I was walking down the street at night, wearing jeans, a sweatshirt, and a backpack, when a car started following me. I turned around and it was a cop car. I looked at it for a second unable to see anyone inside, and when there was no indication that anyone wanted me to stop, I continued walking. After a few minutes of this the car stopped. This was the conversation:
Cop: Hello ma'am
Me: Hello. Is everything okay?
Cop: Where are you going?
Me: To my friend's house.
Cop: Where does your friend live?
Me: {an intersection a few blocks away}
Cop: Where do you live?
Me: {another intersection}
Cop:Where are you coming from?
Me: School. Is there a problem? Did I do something?
(it goes on like this for a few minutes. Him asking me questions as if I'm a criminal and me asking what the hell is going on. Until...)
Cop: Ma'am, this is the area where the prostitutes walk.
Me: Oh. Well...I'm not a prostitute.
Cop: Mmm...I can tell. You don't smell like one.
(important to note that he said "smell" in the ookiest way possible. Also, what does a prostitute smell like? Why was he smelling them? Why was he smelling me?)
Me: Oh, okay.
Cop: Just be careful. There are a lot of riff-raff around here.
(Riff-raff? I didn't realize I was speaking to the cop from West Side Story.)
Me: Umm...thanks.
Now I should say that when my ex-boyfriend had drunk guys pounding on the door and screaming "Come out here you kyke! We're going to fuck you till your asshole bleeds!" and similarly horrifiying things, the cops got almost there, turned around, and left. Probably to go chase a suspicious white male prostitute like me. Oklahoma City Cops: saving the world one unsuspecting innocent at a time.
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In your first example, have you considered that you may not have been the person they were looking for? Perhaps there was a suspicious white male lurking about, and while looking for him, the officer encountered you and decided to make sure you weren't him. Given that he told you to be careful, I wouldn't assume that you were the "suspicious" person.
Honestly, at least in the first example, it sounds like he was just doing his job. He didn't hassle you, and when he got close enough to verify that you weren't the right person, he asked you to be careful and went on his way. No harm, no foul.
kbz
Telling a woman to go home because the streets are scary is infantalizing. And she notes in the end that her ex-boyfriend had not only racist slurs lobbed at him but also physical and sexual threats to his well being and they didnt bother to check up on that. It IS also weird that the officer didnt notice the female in the car and it IS creepy that the officer seemed ti have such an unsympathetic perspective towards prostitutes. I mean, aside from selling sex to pervy and possibly dangerous johns theyre harmless. Its the johns they should be after, not the women stuck betweena rock and a hard place that have to sell sex to survive. The poster is noting not only the sexism but the disparity seen in relation to 'real' crimes (ie, the racist threats aimed at her ex-boyfriend). Did you even read the post?
Of course telling a woman to go home because the streets are scary could be infantilizing ... but telling an innocent citizen to be careful because there is a suspicious individual in the area is simply prudent. In fact, we would likely say the officer was neglectful of his duties if he had not mentioned the suspicious individual, and she had become a victim of that very individual because the officer didn't bother to make her aware of the situation.
Sounds like the officer is in a no-win situation -- if he warns her, he's infantilizing, if he doesn't and she is harmed, he is derelict.
As for the remainder of your post -- I am not sure who you're arguing with. I addressed the first example only, so I don't disagree with your characterizations of the other two.
kbz
But I dont think he wouldve told a guy to go home. And how is that not infantalizing? A police officer has no right to tell a person (man or woman) to go home. She has her own schedule, her own reasons for being out and shes an adult. If she was headed home anyways it makes it redundant, so no I have no clue how you could make any legit argument that it wasnt infantalizing.
In the third example, could he have meant "smell" in the figurative sense? Like, when you're getting vibes from someone you sometimes say "they don't smell right".
Also, the mini-interrogation thing is annoying but not necessarily gendered. From what you listed it sounds like a routine script of stuff cops ask when they stop you. Perhaps the sexism you encountered was more in his tone and body language?
I visit Oklahoma City occasionally because my SO's parents live there. I haven't had any incidents with the cops, but I don't enjoy visiting the conservative suburbs. It's like there's a church on every corner in the part of town where the parents live.
Eww :( Thats always a bad sign.
Right, all religious people are backwards, ignorant, and unsophisticated.
I don't mean to be a jerk, but I don't think that saying things like "there are churches on every corner" (especially as your only argument against an area) is very productive on a public forum like this. It adds to the animosity between different subcultural perspectives, rather than trying to bridge the divides.
She said these people were conservatives. Conservatives and churches DONT mix.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or if you're saying that religious conservatives are the worst kinds. Either way, my point is it just feeds into a negative stereotype of social liberals and limits our own perspectives to just say, "I don't like them, they're conservative and go to church." People have the capability to grow if you give them a chance and don't write them off as stupid conservative Christians. I'm not saying I don't see where she's coming from or I've never felt similarly, but in an arena where there's a possibility to branch out, it seems counterproductive to say things like that.
MarySophia, question:
Maybe we're reading two different posts, and please direct me to said post if so, but where in the post was the word(s) "backwards", "ignorant", or "unsophisticated" used?
Though I'd argue those are apt words when describing the bulk of Oklahomans, especially OK pigs, they're clearly not in the post above.
Maybe we're reading two different posts or maybe you're just projecting? Doth protests too much, methinks.
I was commenting on a stereotype that many people have of Midwestern churchgoers, myself often included (not as a Midwestern churchgoer, but as a stereotyp-er . . . or whatever that word would be.) My point was just that there's nothing inherently wrong about churches being on every corner, and it's important to watch these sort of statements, especially on a public forum. The first sentence was meant to be humorous, not asshole-ish, which I think is how it came off. I should have left it out.
People who want to regress society (also known as conservatives) and are religious doesnt mix. This means that they will have an outdated expression of their religion (think of the baptist christians not letting women preach because women arent supposed to teach men). Conservatives also have irrational perspectives about wanting to take back culture from the 'out of control' liberals and use religion and a heavy theocracy to try and establish this. So no, conservatives and religion DONT mix. A conservative is always someone who wants to hold back progress. They use the church as a means of justifying their irrationality and secluding themselves off of the outer world so that they never have to be challenged. Liberals and religion do however (though I'm an atheist)mix. I live in the West (CO home of Focus on the Family) and grew up in the suffocating Christian environment so I know a thing or teo about conservatives and religion.
Seriously, they taught the Big Bang by shaking up a bunch of stuff inside a cardboard box and said, 'now see, did anything get created?' This was there way of disproving it. What a fucking joke! You dont even want to know how they looked on Hinduism...(they worship more than one God=evil)or Buddhism...(they pray to a stone=evil). :(
Of course they're not stupid, how else do you think they could obtain such nice houses and so many churches, they have to have some kind of knowledge to gain wealth.
My experience comes mostly from my boyfriend's parents and their friends. And when we go out I see the cloned houses and gated communities, families look just like my BF's (white/middle class/suvs), and tons of lawns displaying their favorite OK college. I feel the Christian conservatives are some of the toughest to ague with if you have opposing viewpoints. Everytime we go over there my boyfriend argues with his mother about her beliefs, most of the times she won't even defend her faith or conservative beliefs, she says nothing against his arguments (we are atheist.) She has even told him that she's a republican ultimately because her "husband is the man of the house" after all. A while back Richard Dawkins came to speak at one of the Universities in OK and I thought gee why would he go to the "middle of no where" to speak? Then it dawned on me, OK is a place that would need someone like him the most.
Not all of the people of Edmond are like this and I do think some can change if given a chance. For example, my boyfriend grew up there for 8 years and he is the farthest thing from being a conservative Christian now. Overall I do think the conservatives far outnumber the liberals in that town.
Oh, and that sucks that I come off as a social liberal. I should have explained myself better. I'm not a social liberal, I'm way farther on the left than that. :)
Again, I totally understand where you're coming from. However, the way you said it vilifies all churches.
I suppose I left out some details that might have been helpful. I was within the gates of an apartment complex in my first example, and there was no one else around. So it was definitely me they were after. My point was that the guy told me that I shouldn't be out alone at night, and what I left out was that he said it in a rather condemning way. I felt like I had to explain to him that I didn't have a car and was at work late, because I was obviously doing something wrong by being outside alone.
And the prostitute thing- he definitely meant "smell" like how I smelled. And I was more surprised at how a young woman 2 blocks from a university wearing a backpack was automatically assumed to be a prostitute because I was 5 or 6 blocks from a corner where I have once or twice seen possible prostitutes. Again, I should have included these details the first time. And my main point was that they spent so much time harassing me over pointless things yet had no problem with the rape threats posed against a minority in the same neighborhood. Next time I'll try to be clearer :)
I've lived here in OKC off and on over the past 30 years (from ages 20 to 50), mostly in mixed neighborhoods close to downtown. Once I was pulled over by a cop who was offended by my trendy hairstyle and decided I needed a lecture, but other than that, no problems. I'd say this city has its good points and bad points, like any place -- but people are considerably friendlier here than any other place I've lived or visited.