This just makes me crazy. I'm in the whole "mommy-baby-small-children" universe right now with my life, and I get so tired of the wah-wah crap with fathers being uncomfortable with "girl" diaper bags, baby carriers and other baby gear. Just this morning I was checking out baby carriers for sale on this baby wearing community website and someone was selling a perfectly good carrier that she herself admits she loves because she needs something more gender neutral for the "hubby" to wear. Why are some men so freaked out by "girl" things, pink diaper bags and what not? Why does their sense of masculinity feel so threatened by a lavender baby thing that's anywhere near them? Are they worried that they might be mistaken for a woman? (Oh horror!!)
I've overheard parents at the store where I get cloth diapers worry and fuss about having ok colored diapers for their little boy. Mothers talking about how the fathers would be upset if their son was in a diaper with the wrong color. Hello? Folks, it's a diaper, babies shit in diapers and I can guarantee you that a pink diaper will not make your son a homosexual...is that what is bothering you? What the hell is it? Maybe that Madonna song said it best:
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
cause its ok to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
cause you think that being a girl is degrading
That is pretty sad considering that that is what in essence these fathers are telling their little girls...being THEM would be degrading.
Thank you for letting me vent.


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My guess for parents not wanting their sons wearing "girl-colored" diapers would be because then other would mistake him for a girl. Oh the horror! But that's my best guess.
But the whole thing is just so silly. When I was little my dad was always the one that carried me around in one of those things, ah, what was it called...you know it hooks onto the parent's chest and the baby is strapped in with their little legs dangling out (sorry, I don't have any kids, I don't know these terms). And you know what? It was red. Big fricking deal.
But red is not pink and therefore is not feminine or gay - but had he used a pink baby bjorn [the name of the baby carrier you're referring to] things might have been very different for your dad.
I've often thought about this. It's quite common for girls to be tomboys, and I know that most parents expect them to grow out of it at some point in their adolescence. But for some odd reason, if a boy wants to walk around with a purse, try on a skirt, play with a Barbie doll, or even play around with make up, parents freak the hell out "Oh noes, he's gonna be... gulp... GAY!!!!!" As if that's a bad thing to begin with, but that's a whole different post.
As for the girls who DON'T grow out of the "tomboy" image, after a certain age, they are branded with all sorts of names meant to be insulting, because girls have to be feminine at a certain age, and available for men.
Interestingly enough though, there are men who aren't entirely what society deems "masculine", or who even display "feminine" traits and get away with it. Personally I think this whole "masculine," "feminine" binary is a bit ridiculous, but I am using the terms here for the sake of argument.
I agree with the post above, I think it is more acceptable in society for a girl to act like a guy (as long as it is cute, you know, the whole tiny girl eating like a man, or wearing his shirt ect.) It is cute because in a way, it is belittling and fetishized to a point. For a guy though, displaying typically feminine behaviors is a threat to his manhood. IMO, I think this is just indicative of a man who is not confident in his masculinity to begin with, but I could always be wrong. I mean really, what ARE masculine and female behaviors? All of them have been dictated by culture.
As for the girls who DON'T grow out of the "tomboy" image, after a certain age, they are branded with all sorts of names meant to be insulting
Having known quite a few who fit this, I have never seen them get branded in this way. An interesting conversation I recall was how for (at least our group) "one of the guys" was considered a great compliment for a girl because it suggested similar interests, the same rough and tumble attitude, etc. But to the girls in the conversation it was insult because they viewed it as basically the desexualized friend zone.
Hah. This is how I'm described- the desexualized friend who's 'too much of a guy' to be considered a girl. It is insulting to not be considered a female, when I am most certainly a female.
I don't understand. You seem to be saying that you haven't seen "tomboys" branded badly...but then you go on to say that they're basically viewed as non-females...how is that not insulting?
That was an interpretation by the girls in the conversation, but not the intention of the people who had made the comment.
The guys didn't actually view them as desexualized, they simply viewed them in terms of the positive features which they felt made them more fun to be around.
The view of this being a desexualizing comment was the interpretation of the girls, but one which wasn't shared by the guys. The guys were still quite aware that they were quite attractive females and by no means placed them in the friend zone entirely in that case and didn't feel that 'one of the guys' carried that connotation to them.
It's still pretty insulting, though. The idea that girls like this are "one of the guys" is insulting because it implies that women and girls are no fun as women and girls, only as females who have traded feminine interests for masculine ones.
I just hate the idea that girls who fit into the "one of the guys" meme are just that- one of the GUYS. Not even a "cool girl" or "awesome chick." Femininity is really so devalued that a name that describes "cool" females denies that femaleness is even there. She's just "one of the guys."
And had they described her as you just suggested, and we repeated this exact exchange you'd object to them pointing out her femininity because you'd view it as a way to exclude her from the group.
is insulting because it implies that women and girls are no fun as women and girls, only as females who have traded feminine interests for masculine ones.
They are implying that they prefer to be around girls who can use power tools, go camping, play sports, etc. and that they feel more comfortable hanging out with girls who share those interests. Which is entirely their prerogative.
Further it doesn't suggest they traded a thing of their feminity. That would imply some mutually exclusive relationship that a woman who uses power tools can't also enjoy getting dressed up for a dance, which is outright absurd. It suggested that they had the traits which the guys found desirable, and which were demonstrated by the group and thus they were considered to be a respected peer in the group.
It's pretty ironic that as a feminist you'd be arguing that these traits should be so exclusive.
It's one of those things that unless you have grown up and been socialized as a man, it is tough to understand.
Put a man in a dress and everyone laughs. Put a woman in a suit and no one laughs. In the context of conventional male gender norms, weakness is equated with femininity. Weakness and femininity in a man, at least in a heterosexual context, is a tremendous taboo never to be crossed. I agree that it's stupid and restrictive, but few men are really willing to take a leap of faith and fight against such a strong negative stereotype. They don't want to seem weak in front of other men.
Yep. I know it's just someone venting, but the whole "Would it be SUCH a big deal?" thing shows limited understanding of how this binary is reinforced.
Yes. It would be a big deal. A very big deal. And it's not just men who reinforce the binary. Almost everyone does.
THIS
Masculinity is an achieved status, that men must fight to get and must constantly fight to maintain.
This standard is introduced in early childhood by dads, moms and other caregivers, brutally enforced on the schoolyard by both boys, girls and teachers of both genders and in later life enforced globally, by men, women, boys and girls.
Boys learn early on that certain types of toys and clothes are for girls and that "boys don't cry" - and woe be unto the boy who dares defy the rules of masculinity.
Adult men live under the same tyranny.
So, a man who's taking care of a baby [a task coded as "feminine" and "unmanly" by the rules of masculinity] is under enough pressure as it is - being branded as womanly or gay by having anything to do with pink colored baby care related items would be the straw that broke the camel's back.
A minor note, admittedly, but that Madonna song excerpt cited is actually a sound clip from the film The Cement Garden.
ARRGH!!! This has always driven me crazy!!!
This may not seem to relate, but bear with me. I was raised in a family of boys. I was the youngest and the only girl. My mother was ahead of her time. She was determined that I would not be limited because of my gender.
What I remember is that as I grew up I was shocked by the limits and walls placed before me socially because of my gender.
Honestly, there are still many assumptions about gender (even by feminists) that I do not buy because I really believe MOST of this stuff is related to our childhood environment and influences.
Very often assumptions are made about how I should react or feel because of my gender --- many, many times it is just plain wrong. I think it is because I was not limited in my very early years. I was not told to be a lady by my parents (although the woman bus driver called me "Jack" and THAT drove me crazy!). I was allowed the same freedoms as my brothers. I was encouraged to make decisions and to explore on my own.
And I wore pink dresses or jeans if I wanted. When my older brother, at 4 or 5 wanted to wear a dress like me, my mother let him because she did not see any harm in it (1960 mind you). After a day, he decided on his own it was not his thing. Now he is the most masculine looking and acting of all my brothers.. (although they are all pretty "manly men").
So.. this pink/blue thing really drives me crazy. It is silly and tragic at the same time.
I just wanted to add a bit to my original comment. The societal taboo that drives men to be deathly afraid of appearing feminine is a bit more complex than just a fear of seeming weak. Inherent within it is a view that every male must be highly independent and have no need for direct assistance.
This is why at times it can be very lonely being a man. My female friends think nothing of picking up the phone and asking their female friends for both validation and advise when they're about to make an important decision. Men are not supposed to reach out this way. We're supposed to need no one besides ourselves, which is why we end up looking like Captain Ahab in search of the white whale.
I remember a study I read where when heterosexual teenage boys had girlfriends they had an acceptable means of expressing their feminine sides and cultivating their desire to networking and rely on someone else besides themselves, but when the relationship broke up, that outlet was gone and they felt utterly shipwrecked and rudderless in the process.
And yes, the base assumption can be construed to read that according to male gender norms that women are dependent rather independent and men are the exact reverse, but that doesn't really tell the whole story. There is much a man can learn from a woman, and indeed this man has been blessed and fortunate to have so many excellent female teachers.
I like red, pink, purple, yellow, orange, green, and pastel colors. The reason I do not wear more colors is the fact I cannot find colorfast fabrics. If I buy something a certain shade of red like my kimono, it's because I wanted that shade of red, not the shade of dingy after ten cleanings. I don't want to wear faded clothes. At least if I stick to my usual white, grey or khaki, it's harder to tell. Or if I wear denim it is expected to fade.
My son who just turned 11 liked pink clothes and used to wear his younger sister's clothes (they are the same size and weight). He stopped doing that awhile ago for reasons unknown. Now he likes blue.
I agree with this post, I am sympathetic with your source of frustration, and dismantling gender roles is my primary social focus.
However, (and correct me if I am falsely inferring this) I am perceiving a sense of hostility towards the individual men who don't want to wear "feminine" baby gear, and I think this is misplaced:
"Why are some men so freaked out by 'girl' things, pink diaper bags and what not? Why does their sense of masculinity feel so threatened by a lavender baby thing that's anywhere near them? Are they worried that they might be mistaken for a woman? (Oh horror!!)"
The answer to the first two questions is of course that society tells them to be and punishes them when they aren't. Is it so ridiculous for men to want to wear "gender appropriate" (my sneer quotes) baby carriers? Regrettable, yes, but also understandable. When society dictates that men's self worth is tied into their "masculinity," and most of the people they encounter (both male and female) judge them on this continuum, the prospect of breaking gender rank in certain ways can be prohibitively overwhelming--it is not a trivial thing and it should be recognized as such.
An analogy:
A couple of times I've been late for a formal event because my girlfriend insisted that she had to shave her legs to go out in a dress. While, as a feminist, I am against the societal pressure on women to shave their legs (and most of my girlfriends, as fellow feminists have elected not to in many, but not all, circumstances) I think most would agree that it would be inappropriate for me to say "We're too late for your gender roles. Suck it up and go out in public with hairy legs. It doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you." Why? Because I'm not the one struggling with the reactions of other people and the insecurities that result from them.
My point is that gender roles are not the fault of those constrained by them. They have to be dismantled holistically. As long as baby product makers continue to gender an overwhelming portion of their products and as long as people react negatively to men wearing effeminate baby equipment, the decision for men to break rank and ignore such gender stereotyping will have to be a radical one, incurring a lot of hostility from others. Frankly, I don't blame anyone, male or female, that doesn't want to make simple daily behaviors into a drastic sociopolitical statement at their own risk.
You're not the only one sensing hostility, and I'm pretty sure it comes from lines like this:
"I get so tired of the wah-wah crap with fathers being uncomfortable with "girl" diaper bags"
As has been stated here the masculine/feminine binary is heavily reinforced by most everyone, and to act like it's "wah-wah crap" for fathers in this position comes across as pretty hostile.
The leg-shaving analogy is pretty appropriate. I don't think anyone here would refer to it as "wah-wah crap".
Why wouldn't fathers be uncomfortable with products marked as feminine? When everyone does their best to make you feel uncomfortable around said products it's hard not to be.