I'm from Pittsburgh and while I've never been that into sports, it's hard to ignore Steeler-mania in my hometown. I want to be able to hang out with my friends, but many of them are watching the game, and I don't feel right about cheering on the team that still has Ben Roethlisberger after news over the summer that he raped a woman in Nevada.
I had seen someone on here before comment that we shouldn't have to choose between condemning misogyny and enjoying pro sports, and I really wish I could sit back and enjoy the Steeler game as I have so many times before, but it just feels.. wrong. Like I'm supporting a rapist in getting away with it.
Anybody else feel this way about pro sports? Any other Steeler fans have mixed feelings about the team this year?
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I am not a Steelers fan, but would your feelings change if it turns out the allegations are not true?
-Jut
I don't think there's a way for outsiders to judge whether the allegations are true or not other than trusting that people just don't make up rape stories. Truthfully, Ben Roethlisberger is forever sullied in my eyes.
I can't feel alright cheering for the team until its settled. If the charges are dropped, I'll probably go on cheering for the team including #7. If he is found guilty or if a settlement is reached, I won't be a Steelers fan until Rothlisberger is gone.
I don't know, Kate...this approach sounds a lot to me like "guilty until proven innocent." I think it should be the other way around.
I confess that I view him skeptically ever since I heard about the charges...but I'm going to withhold my final judgment until the legal process is complete and renders its decision. The Steelers and their fans are right to do the same.
Alleged victims always get my support until proven otherwise. I'm not the court system, my support will always go to the victim over the accused.
Compare it to the Kobe Bryant situation. We may not have every single sordid detail, but the way it played out makes it pretty clear something foul went down, and he probably did commit rape (this is disregarding the fact he cheated on his wife, too). Some people might question it if you still hold that against him, but they shouldn't. He fucked up in a serious way and deserves to be reviled for it.
Right now, nothing has been released about the Roethlisberger case that suggests anything either way. I'm not a Steelers fan, but I can't imagine not giving him the basic innocent-until-prove-guilty right. If I found myself in the center of some controversy, I would hope others do that for me.
When it comes to football, the general populace seems to believe that any crimes the players commit don't matter. It sucks.
I agree with Kate. All this talk of being fair about "innocent until proven guilty" is crap. I don't have to be fair. This brings up emotions for me. Emotions are, by their very nature, irrational and I can't treat this situation with rationality because of my past assault. So instead of asking questions that criticize my right to be pissed at Ben, how about we acknowledge that yes, there is a ton of misogyny and entitlement in professional sports, and as an occasional sports fan I have the right to be appalled by it.
It really saddens me how willing some of you are to throw the innocent until proven guilty thing out the window- it's the cornerstone of our justice system, the idea that it's better that a guilty person go free than an innocent one be imprisoned.
Yes, rape is an emotional issue, but it's also one we need to be able to think and talk about in a rational way, especially when it comes to the accused. One cannot allow their judgement to be clouded by emotion.
In this case there are no criminal charges filed, nor will there be. The burden of proof in civil cases is considerably less, so even if a judgement is granted or a settlement reached, there will always be questions unless he were to confess something.
Look at the Duke case, or the recent case of the cab driver who was falsely accused. It does happen, as much as we may want to pretend it doesn't.
The details of this case are sketchy enough to give me a lot of doubt where this victim is concerned.
I don't watch football, but if I did, I'd have no qualms about continuing to support the steelers, based on all the facts thus far.
Innocent until proven guilty is a big tenant of the US justice system, but that doesn't mean it isn't problematic or everyone agrees with it.
"In this case there are no criminal charges filed, nor will there be. The burden of proof in civil cases is considerably less."
I see this as a wonderful thing, and you see it as a negative, so I'm not sure if my response will really get us anywhere, but I'll give it a go.
I don't feel like writing them all out again, but please see my responses to many of your points here:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/016863.html
It saddens me how quickly people can move from a stock response of "yes rape is an emotional issue" to ignoring that reality for many of us and ignoring that many of the things said about women such as Ms. McNulty may have very well been said to our faces about our situations. For me, that alone creates a sort of bond. My heart goes out to her.
The sad fact is, we'll never know with 100% certainty who is lying, but I'm comfortable for the time being believing her. I feel like that's at least evening out the scale, as it seems the vast majority of people are quick to do the opposite to the point of disparaging her character by claiming she just wants the money or some other bullshit argument.
Although, I did just read something about her being willing to drop her pursuit of damages if he confessed and made a donation to charity, so maybe...
The idea of her seeking to gain financially had been very off-putting to me.
I still stand by the whole presumption of innocence thing, though.
Why was it off-putting that she is seeking monetary damages? She probably has medical bills to pay and lost wages to be compensated for. Is it wrong to sue for damages if a person has damaged you?