A few days ago there was a post about a Seventeen Magazine article regarding a woman who dated an abusive trans man who was outed when she called the police. He later explained that he was scared that she would break up with him if she knew. In the article she says "The thing is, I would have stayed with him if he'd been honest. I loved him that much... But it was Derek's lies that really broke my heart."
The title of the article was "My Boyfriend Turned Out to be a Girl." The poster was arguing that while the title was transphobic, the content of the article was not.
The fact that he was abusive was not the point of the article or the poster's argument.
This sparked a long discussion which I believe merits its own post, so I am creating a new one here.
It's not just the title of the article that was transphobic, it was the entire premise. It assumes that transgender people are obligated to come out to their romantic partners, and that if they don't they're liars. This is a highly transphobic position to take.
Trans men are real men, as are cisgender men. The only difference is that trans men are born with bodies that are incongruent with their internal sense of self, and as a result are socialized by society into the female role. In other words, who they are on the inside doesn't match how they appear on the outside, and so they are raised as girls.
A trans man's perception of himself as male, and identity as male, is just as real and valid as a cisgender mans identity and sense of self. When a trans man transitions he isn't being deceptive - just the opposite. He is being himself, despite everything he was socialized to believe about who he is.
If he uses medical interventions, it's not to deceive people, or even to "become" a man. He's always been a man. The purpose is to bring his body into congruence with who he really is. It's his unmodified body that had been the deception.
A trans man might allow people to assume that he is cisgender, and might even lie about it if asked, but this is because our society forces him to do so. We force him to choose between having one of the most basic and fundamental parts of his identity respected, or disclosing private information about his body.
Imagine if you were placed in that position. For those of you who are cisgender women: what if society decided that anyone who's had a hysterectomy or mastectomy is no longer a real woman? Maybe society decided that such people are men. Suppose you had cancer and required one of these procedures, thus making you a man in the eyes of society. Suppose that society now expects you to take on male gender roles and live as a man, because after the procedure you're no longer considered a woman.
Would you cooperate? Would you feel like societies expectations of you are fair?
Suppose you don't cooperate and instead decide "fuck society, I'm still a woman!" You continue to live the way you've always lived and be the person you've always been, knowing that your identity as a woman would be rejected if people found out. You also know that there are a lot of people who would hate you and even hurt you if they knew, because your body no longer conforms to their standards of womanhood.
How inclined would you feel to disclose the fact that you've had surgery?
Imagine society accused people in your position of being liars. Imagine having to hear people describe women like you as frauds. Imagine being told that not disclosing your surgery to your sexual partners makes you an exploitative rapist - that they have the right to know so that they can decide whether or not you're the type of person they want to consent to sex with, and thinking "I'm just me! Having surgery doesn't make me any type of person!"
Imagine that you enter a romantic relationship with someone. It doesn't work out and you break up with them. Later you get outed and you explain to them that you didn't tell them because you were scared they would leave you. Their response is: "I would have stayed with you if you'd been honest. I loved you that much, but your lies broke my heart."
To top it off, imagine hearing people comment about what a nice person your partner is, since they would have stayed with you, had you just been honest.
That's the world that transgender people are forced to navigate.
Think about that if you're ever tempted to say that transgender people are obligated to come out to their partners.
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true true true true true. Thank you for pointing out bigotry and privilege wherever it lurks.
Honestly, I hesitate to comment on this, but I feel like it is important to discuss. Perhaps I am an outlier, but I would consider this important information to share with a romantic partner simply because it could be very important to them. Before consenting to sex with a partner, I disclose everything that I think could be relevant to their decision. I would like to think that my partners would also disclose anything that might be relevant to me. Sometimes that means telling people something that you know shouldn't make a difference or wouldn't make a difference to you, but that would be a big deal to your partner. In my opinion, your partner's psychological state should be important to you, so it would be important to not do anything that could cause them psychological distress.
As a cisgender woman, I don't have the experience of being a transgender person and can't speak to that. I can speak to the experience of feeling betrayed if a partner does not disclose something they know could be an issue for me. That situation is precisely why I am so open with my own history when discussing sex with a romantic partner. I would rather have the decision upfront and fully informed so that my partner never feels that I was dishonest - even if it is something that I think shouldn't matter to them or that in a perfect world would be a complete non-issue.
Things I disclose: age, gender, sexual orientation, basic sexual history, std status, marital status, relationship status, parenthood status, kink status, purpose (casual sex, relationship, etc.), and anything that I feel will be important to my partner based on what I know about them. This can include anything from political or religious views to the fact that I have tattoos – whatever I think might matter to them in their decision. I also ask if there is anything they would like to know about me that I didn’t cover. It probably isn’t the most romantic or exciting conversation they have ever had, but it means I get to go into the sexual relationship knowing that I was as open as possible. Does this mean that everyone has to be this open when going into a relationship? Obviously not and that is up to each person to decide their own comfort level. However, I reserve the right to choose not to have sex with anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable sharing the same level of disclosure with me.
In an ideal world, everyone would disclose those things and the worst that would happen would be your partner breaking up with you in a peaceful fashion.
But that's not the world we live in. Trans people have to deal with the incredible stigma that society places on being trans, and the very real threats to our safety that come with that. And that's on top of the common human fear of rejection that everyone in relationships deals with. We have to weigh whether it's safe to disclose, whether they'll react better when they know us better, whether they'll find out afterwards & how they'll react then, the nature of the relationship (is it a one night stand, or a long-term relationship, or something in between), etc.
More important than whether trans people should disclose, or blaming them for things when they don't, is changing society so that it's safe for trans people to come out or not. Until then, discussion of what's honest or truthful are missing part of the point.
For the most part, I agree with you. I think the area where we part ways is specifically whether a responsibility to disclose comes into play when deciding on a sexual partner. For me, disclosure is an upfront process, even when I know it will likely end any possible relationship. For me, personally, I would be uncomfortable in a relationship with someone that was not able to offer me the same level of upfront disclosure. I think each person, whether cis, trans, or another category, must determine those boundaries for themselves and I feel that it is my responsibility as a person to take into account my potential partner’s boundaries as well as my own. I don’t expect everyone to have the same ideals of disclosure as me – I fully understand that I am far more open with my potential partners than many people. As a cis woman, I don’t face the same dangers and issues as a trans person. I am simply offering a view on how important disclosure can be to your partner and why I believe that all people should disclose important information before moving beyond friendship into a sexual relationship. I would never blame a trans person for choosing not to disclose, but I also wouldn’t choose to be in a relationship with them if they felt they couldn’t disclose that to me – same as if my partner failed to disclose that they were a parent, married, in a relationship, or any other status that was important to me. (All of this pre-supposes at least a minimum relationship. I don’t do one-night-stands, so I haven’t deeply examined how much disclosure I would want/give. I would imagine the situation could be quite different.)
There's also a difference between expecting full disclosure from both parties (especially when its clear they are supportive of trans people), as you do, and holding trans people to a different standard. There's also a difference between breaking up with someone because they aren't honest, and saying that trans people who pass as cis are lying. For me, whether or not people disclose personal information is important, but also why they didn't: were they afraid of how I'd react, is it because of past experiences of theirs, were they trying to take advantage of me, did i do something to make them not trust me, are they not a trusting person, did they have a different idea of how the relationship was going, etc.
Lots of people have preferences about what they want their partner's bodies to look like. Should women disclose whether they've had breast surgery, since some men might have preferences? Should men say whether they've been circumsized? Should people say whether they're shaved, or trimmed, or unshaved? Should women who have large inner labia say so, so they don't surprise men who have narrow expectations based on porn? Where does one draw the line on what should be disclosed, and what your partner will just see and deal with when it comes time? None of those, I think, would we say that people should disclose first; instead people with strong enough opinions should ask, or just deal gracefully when the time comes.
The issues are also somewhat different depending on the op status of the trans person. Post-op trans women can sometimes pass, even in intimate situations, so they wouldn't have a need to disclose so their partner would know what genitals they have. For some then it becomes more an issue of their past, and not who they are at present.
Excellent reply :) I agree and my policy is always be willing to disclose anything that is important to my partners - even if I think it is trivial. We cant always know what will be that trigger for our partners, but I advocate for everyone being as clear as they can to prevent negative situations for both partners.
(and it may be because of the circles I run in, but I listed gender specifically because it is something I disclose even though I am cisgendered. Not everyone will think of that as something to mention, but rather than consider anything as obvious or standard I just disclose. As a geek, I always feel the need to state my givens as part of any discussion.)
Should men say whether they've been circumsized?
FWIW, I've legitimately been asked this question by a sexual partner. And, FWIW, I answered honestly.
But, giving to the nature of the discussion, I have no obligation to tell any of you what the answer is.
I think the point is not that this is something that will *never* be disclosed, but that if neither you nor your partner had brought up your circumcision status, your partner would almost certainly not have broken up with you for "lying" once he/she discovered your status -- even if, for instance, you seemed like you were probably circumcised or uncircumcised. "You seemed Jewish so I assumed you were circumcised and by not disclosing the state of your genitals you deceived me and are a liar!" would not be seen as a reasonable statement.
mahjani and rhoanna, I appreciate your discussion very much!
Actually, what was going on downstairs was a disappointment for an ex of mine because of his preferences. Even more to the point, if you're going to be having consensual sexual contact, the other person is going to find out about your genitals regardless of warning. I think it's more respectful to let them know what you have, if asked or if you willingly offer, than to have it be a surprise.
"More important than whether trans people should disclose, or blaming them for things when they don't, is changing society so that it's safe for trans people to come out or not. Until then, discussion of what's honest or truthful are missing part of the point."
Fair. This totally makes sense to me.
I do understand the threats to safety. And, I don't believe anyone is saying that transgendered people should haphazardly come out to every ignoramus wandering around.
But, the threats to safety that you reference are also really good reasons not to be involved romantically with someone. If you don't feel safe with someone, don't come out to them -- but don't have a sexual relationship with them either.
I suppose I do not understand feeling safe enough to have sex with someone -- but still fearing physical violence upon the revelation of being transgendered. You're either safe, or you're not.
kbz
if you can't discuss this sort of thing with a person then you shouldn't be having sex with them. I don't know how someone can be okay with being so intimate with another person and not be okay sharing that sort of thing with their partner. I agree that transgendered individuals have the right to tell who they want and how they want but their sexual partners or their gf/bf should be one of the people that they want to tell, and if they are truly fearful of what their partner might say or how they will respond then how can they trust them with their body in such an intimate fashion. I personally think that sharing that information with your partner before hand is protection for the transgendered person because it means stopping and thinking about who they want to have sex with, something that a hell of a lot more of us need to start doing
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you to some degree. It is up to individuals to decide how much of themselves to disclose to their partners before sex unless it is something that might be harmful to their health. Personally, I'm always against actively lying to romantic partners and think people should be truthful when asked directly, or else forgo the sex until one feels comfortable in answering whatever question has been asked. However, if it doesn't seem important to either participant in the moment, it's within each individual's right to not disclose everything.
HOWEVER, once the truth has been found out, the partner who has withheld information does not get to dictate how the other should feel about it. If they feel betrayed or lied to, that's how they feel and that's the risk one takes for leaving out the truth. And, also personally, I would never want to have a relationship with someone who was willing to risk hurting or betraying me by not being fully upfront or wholly truthful.
It's so hard to talk about this when there are competing definitions of truth going on. It seems like the original article calls a trans man a liar for calling himself a man. (I'm not 100% sure that's the contention though, it seemed like the article might have been talking about him cheating as a form of lying as well). I totally disagree with this characterization- a trans man IS a man, and saying so isn't a lie. But I can also see, as a partner, wanting to know that although my partner is a man, he has physical characteristics that are commonly considered female. I don't think this is a first-date conversation, I don't think it's any of the general public's damn business, and I think the magazine article handled the incident in a horrible fashion. But I do still feel like there will come a time within the relationship when the level of intimacy requires disclosure about this.
Your example about the hysterectomy makes a lot of sense to me (as a cis woman). It would be completely awful to be called a liar for presenting as a woman after a hysterectomy, awful and unfair. But I would tell my partner, once we got to a certain point. Over the course of our relationship my partner and I have slowly disclosed all kinds of medical facts about ourselves, as well as our deeply-held values. It's all part of who I am.
My overall point is, I get that being trans is mostly nobody's business but one's own, and that a lot of trans people are unjustly considered to be devious liars. But I'm not entirely convinced that it's *never* necessary to disclose the fact that you're trans to your partner.
I know that my experience isn't the same as a trans person's, and I'm still thinking about this issue. I apologize if I'm contributing to an ignorant stance, and I'm personally committed to continuing to learn about transgender issues. Thank you for your input, and I'll keep thinking about it.
It's so hard to talk about this when there are competing definitions of truth going on. It seems like the original article calls a trans man a liar for calling himself a man. (I'm not 100% sure that's the contention though, it seemed like the article might have been talking about him cheating as a form of lying as well). I totally disagree with this characterization- a trans man IS a man, and saying so isn't a lie. But I can also see, as a partner, wanting to know that although my partner is a man, he has physical characteristics that are commonly considered female. I don't think this is a first-date conversation, I don't think it's any of the general public's damn business, and I think the magazine article handled the incident in a horrible fashion. But I do still feel like there will come a time within the relationship when the level of intimacy requires disclosure about this.
Your example about the hysterectomy makes a lot of sense to me (as a cis woman). It would be completely awful to be called a liar for presenting as a woman after a hysterectomy, awful and unfair. But I would tell my partner, once we got to a certain point. Over the course of our relationship my partner and I have slowly disclosed all kinds of medical facts about ourselves, as well as our deeply-held values. It's all part of who I am.
My overall point is, I get that being trans is mostly nobody's business but one's own, and that a lot of trans people are unjustly considered to be devious liars. But I'm not entirely convinced that it's *never* necessary to disclose the fact that you're trans to your partner.
I know that my experience isn't the same as a trans person's, and I'm still thinking about this issue. I apologize if I'm contributing to an ignorant stance, and I'm personally committed to continuing to learn about transgender issues. Thank you for your input, and I'll keep thinking about it.
damn, sorry about the double post
Ok. First, heterosexual people are not heterosexual based on who looks feminine or looks masculine. There ARE masculine looking heterosexual women and feminine looking heterosexual men.
Second, the heterosexual part is less about gender identity and much more about body anatomy. If it was all about who looked the part, ciswomen and cismen who looked like the opposite sex would be referred to as such.
Third, I think it takes an asshole of non-epic proportions to expect ME to have a vagina whilst I can not expect him to have a penis. Wait, an asshole of epic proportions.
Being trans, like anoy other medical issue is private. One that needs not to be disclosed UNTIL that medical issue is about to present itself. I think its wrong to wait until a woman is about to fellate your clitoris before telling her you don't have a penis. Even if it were a cisman that, for whatever reason, did not have a penis. His partner should know this BEFORE they have sex.
We argue abstinence is a fail because its wrong to make people feel ashamed of wanting to have sex. That applies NOT JUST to homosexuals or queer people, but heterosexuals as well. There is nothing bad about wanting a penis inside of you, there is nothing wrong about wanting to penetrate a vagina.
On the question about hysterectomies. Would I call myself a woman? Fuck yeah I would because I am have always been one and nothing anyone would ever say could change that.
BUT would I tell a partner that? Particularly one who is specifically attracted to women with uteruses the way heterosexual men are attracted to people with vaginas? YES! Because he needs to know if I need a uterus for him to be with me, that I don't have one. He's not right for me and I'm not right for him.
If he wanted children and I married him and never said squat I'd be a HUGE asshole of epic proportions. Just like he would be if I married him and he'd had a vasectomy. The option to adopt is always there and if he lvoed me for me well guess what, he might just stay but to hide it or downright LIE (the way the ABUSIVE- since when did we start fucking dismissing ABUSE liek it wasn't the point?- transman LIED about why he covered his breasts, amongst the many lies he had to tell to cheat on his girlfriend in the first palce) about it is dishonest. It's me making a decision for him.
"BUT would I tell a partner that? Particularly one who is specifically attracted to women with uteruses the way heterosexual men are attracted to people with vaginas? YES! Because he needs to know if I need a uterus for him to be with me, that I don't have one. He's not right for me and I'm not right for him."
I've dated several heterosexual men, but strangely NONE of them seemed to be "attracted to people with vaginas." They didn't even really think that vaginas are attractive in and of themselves.
They certainly never saw my vagina before getting intimate with me, so that obviously was not what attracted them to me.
So because of your personal experience you do not believe those men should have the right to decide whether they want to have sex with a partner who has a penis or not?
So they have the right to refuse sex for any reason, but not that reason? At what point does one lose that right?
"So because of your personal experience you do not believe those men should have the right to decide whether they want to have sex with a partner who has a penis or not?"
Of course they have that right.
If their partner tells them they have a penis, they have the right to break up with them.
Of course they have that right.
If their partner tells them they have a penis, they have the right to break up with them.
Except they have the right to know before anything sexual occurs. The person has the right to not have sex with the other person. That right never goes away.
No one is suggesting that transgender people have the right to perform any sexual acts on another person without their consent. That's rape.
Likewise, no one has right to penetrate me with a dildo without my consent. That's also rape.
But, it would be ludicrous to suggest that my partners are under an obligation to inform me that they own a dildo.
It only becomes relevant when they plan on using it on me.
Except this isn't about on persons ownership of a dildo. This is about how one persons physical sex fundamentally changes many peoples choice to consent. Even for sexual activity which does not involve that particular sexual organ.
In the previous post, I was the primary party that disagreed with the OP (in this post).
My position, simply stated, is this -- to most people, the gender or percieved gender of a romantic partner is fundamental to the decision of whether to consent. To people that identify as homosexual or heterosexual, their sexual identity is closely tied to the gender of their sexual partners.
This is not to say that transgendered people aren't "real" men or women ... but to say that their romantic partners still retain the right to make the determination on their own whether they want to be in a relationship with a transgendered person. To obtain consent by withholding information is exploitative.
I agree completely that it is entirely up to a transgendered person how, when and to whom to come out. Non-disclosure is fully within their rights. Having sex with someone that does not merit disclosure is NOT within their rights. A transgendered person retains the right to withhold ... but they must choose between (1) disclosing and having sex, or (2) not disclosing and not having sex. It is not ethical to withhold disclosure, but still have sex with a partner.
Consent, must be full, INFORMED and enthusiastic. If they don't know, they can't consent. If they can't consent, you can't have sex with them. Thus, if they don't know ... you can't (ethically) have sex with them (the transitive property of consent?).
kbz
I agree. Transphobia may be the most prominent factor in rejection of dating trans people, but this does not take away anyone's right to know the physical history of who they are intimate with. We talk all the time about how people have a right to be turned on by whatever they want, and how as long as they have a consenting adult to do it with them they should be able to act it out. Why does this not apply to people who want to have sex with cis gendered people?
The conversation should be about how to get people to stop thinking that trans gendered people are gross and really not the gender they claim to be, not that it's okay to pretend you are cis so people will sleep with you.
That being said, no matter what your position, it is deception to withhold information vital to make an informed decision. The fact that this man did not say he was trans was withholding information, so it was deception. There are instances where deception is alright, such as safety which most trans people need to keep in mind when telling anyone they are trans.
Sexual attraction is a complicated subject. People who only date men are not necessarily misogynists. People who only date women are not necessarily misandrists. People who only date white people are not necessarily racists. And, people who only want to be in relationships with cis-people are not necessarily transphobic.
They may (or may not) have racist, misogynist, misandrist or transphobic motives -- and, those motives may be worth some self-exploration -- but people have the right to whatever relationship criteria they want. People are simply not required to be equal opportunity in their relationships.
Like it or not, to most people, gender matters in relationships. We can certainly try to change that. It may be a good thing if we did. But, that does not make it any less true that people have the right to withhold consent for any reason, or no reason at all ... and their partners do not have the right to withhold information that is likely fundamental to their decision.
kbz
What you are basically saying, is that trans people are obligated to either be celibate or disclose their trans status to their partners.
Your reasoning is that to "most people", their partners trans status would be fundamental in their decision to consent to sex, and that therefore, not revealing this information is exploitative.
I asked you whether you would apply this standard to other private matters regarding the body: "Genetic predispositions to diseases? Blood type? Previous pregnancies? Previous abortions? Racial history going back X number of generations? Whether or not they have an invisible disability? Whether or not they've ever had cancer? Natural hair color? Whether they take acne medication? Whether or not they've ever had surgery for any reason? Whether or not they've ever had a cavity, and if so how many?"
Looking back, I really should have made that list more neutral. Blood type, Natural hair and eye color, racial history... that type of thing. The difficult thing is that most neutral things aren't widely considered private.
You're response was "I specifically stated that people should disclose that which will likely be fundamental to consent being granted. This qualifies. Dental cavities don't."
Basically, what you are saying is that because society rejects and marginalizes trans bodies, people with these bodies are obligated to disclose to their partners.
On the other hand, cavities are considered trivial, so people that have or have had them are under no obligation.
Just to make sure I fully understand your argument:
What if some individual does find cavities or other trivial and private matters to be fundamental to consent being granted? Is that persons partner obligated to disclose? If not, if it's just about societies expectations rather than individual expectations, what percentage of society has to consider the matter fundamental? 50%? 75% 99%? More importantly, how do you come to the conclusion about what percentage matters?
okay you going to be having sex with this person. You are going to be sharing your body in the most intimate possible way with a person who you are not comfortable talking about those things with? What you and a lot of other people don't seem to be understanding is that if you can't share your thoughts with this person, which is a much more safe thing to share than your body, then maybe you shouldn't be sharing your body with them either
What if some individual does find cavities or other trivial and private matters to be fundamental to consent being granted? Is that persons partner obligated to disclose?
If they have in someway reason to believe that this is likely to matter. Then yes they have a moral obligation if not a legal obligation to disclose that information.
If not, if it's just about societies expectations rather than individual expectations, what percentage of society has to consider the matter fundamental?
Society's expectations are in large part merely a conglomeration of individuals expectations.
50%? 75% 99%? More importantly, how do you come to the conclusion about what percentage matters?
A percentage at which a reasonable person would have reason to believe that the information is relevant to a persons informed consent. The same standard we would use for any information in any type of contract, agreement, or other act which required consent from one of more people.
He disregarded his partner's feelings so that he could protect himself from being dumped, that makes him a liar.
I wont use medical examples because being transgendered is not comparable to disease but rather national identity. Because even though a specific nationality may have some similar physical characteristics, the behavior and culture that nationality engages in, is learned. The same goes with gender.
Say for example that you were born in Germany and raised in a German home but you always felt like you didn't quite fit in. Then you moved to the US. You really felt that you actually identify more with being a US citizen and so you presented yourself in such a manner. You got rid of your accent, you changed your name and participated in US society as a US citizen.
Then you started dating a US citizen, and that US citizen assumed you were also a US citizen because you presented yourself in such a way. That is until one day that person saw your passport and figured out that even though you presented yourself as a US citizen, you were of German nationality. Of course your partner would get upset, not because you were not a US citizen but because you omitted the fact that you grew up German. And your partner would feel hurt that you would think that it is okay to omit such an important part of your history. Then you say "well i was scared if i told you that you would dump me".
Gender identity is learned through our interactions with people when we are children. We figure out what we are comfortable with, what we like and don't like and then we pick something. Is there something wrong with this idea...NO! Everyone should be able to pick whichever gender they choose. In fact I do believe some Native American tribes had a third gender and children were allowed to choose whichever gender they wanted to be.
Personal accountability for one's actions with a partner are genderless. He shouldn't have lied about his past. That is probably what hurt his girlfriend, the fact that she shared with him her secrets and her past and he didn't. That is why calling him a liar is not transphobic.
I don't think this comparison works, because there's nowhere near the same amount of stigma attached to being German as there is to being transgendered in our current society.
"I don't think this comparison works, because there's nowhere near the same amount of stigma attached to being German as there is to being transgendered in our current society."
You are correct that there is not as much stigma as being German just as there is no stigma in being male or female. But there is a stigma of being an immigrant (whatever the status is) just as there is a stigma of being trans. And even though the immigrant would identify themselves as a US citizen, if they have an accent they will always be considered non-American. Trans people go through the same thing. That's where I was trying to get at that.
Your example would be more accurate if the person in question were a US citizen, but had German parents thus leading others to believe that ze wasn't a "real American."
Ze is a US citizen and the fact that hir parents are German is not important enough to warrant disclosure. If hir partner required hir to have American parents, the partner needs to be upfront with that desire. But because ze is who ze presents hirself to be, ze has no additional requirement to disclose.
Derek did not lie about his past. He didn't mention his trans status just like he may have failed to mention the time he had a tonsillectomy or played the lead role in his school play. If his trans status is insignificant to him, he has no obligation to disclose it unless he is specifically asked about it.
Derek did lie about his past. He said his chest bandages were from a baseball injury, when he was (at least the way I read it) using the bandages to bind his breasts.
Here you are confusing gender performance with identity:
"Gender identity is learned through our interactions with people when we are children. We figure out what we are comfortable with, what we like and don't like and then we pick something."
I didn't choose to be female, I just am. Same as any cis woman didn't choose to be.
I think this is less about the experience of being trans and more about when to disclose personal information to a partner.
I'm on the dissenting side of this because I feel that, if I were to date someone regardless of trans or cis status, if we were going to go down the physical route, I have a right to know what equipment I'm going to be interacting with. Is my boyfriend going to have a vagina or a penis? Is my boyfriend in transition and therefor will his vagina look a little different than the non-hormone vagina?
I would absolutely and enthusiastically date a trans person, whether MTF, FTM or genderfuck/queer. When it comes down to sexual interaction, however, I would like to know what's going on. Is it a trans person's obligation to tell everyone of their status? No. If you want to be stealth, that's your entire choice and I'm fine with you being stealth. There's nothing wrong with being stealth and some people are more comfortable that way.
I do feel, however, that disclosure of these things in sexual situations (not all your friends need to know you're trans, either) is important.
You could equate it in an analogous way to having an incurable STD (Herpes, HIV)*. You don't have to yell it from the hills, but your partners should know before you engage with them. You could present as completely healthy and normal (in the STD side of the analogy -- not saying that about trans people) and so no one has to know, but when it's time to get between the sheets, then you need to tell the other person.
As I said then, if you're close enough to have sex (or are looking to hook up), you should disclose this type of information because it could be very important to your partner. Fear of rejection isn't something that should keep you from that.
*I do not in any way want to suggest that trans people are "diseased", but this is about sex and the nature of when people should disclose information that could impact sexual activity for the other person. Genitals can be a make-or-break issue. Being trans is not a threat to the other person's health like a disease, however the vulnerability in disclosure is similar, though different.
I am all for informed consent, but I think people describing this as an issue of informed consent is rather ridiculous, because generally people have no right or reason to assume a person's anatomy based on their gender. If we have a tendency to assume that all women have vaginas and all men have penises, it's our duty to STOP ASSUMING THAT, not our partner's obligation to tell us if they don't happen to fit into our assumptions.
Now, I could see this being an issue of informed consent in the following situation: if one partner says something like, "I am only interested in having sex with a person who has a penis. If you don't have that part, I do not want to have sex with you" and the other partner lies and engages in sexual activity anyway. But in most situations, I doubt this is the case.
I think a world without the gender binary this is fair. But, we live in a world where most people of a certain gender have a certain biological sex. It's like going to a straight bar and being offended, as a gay person, when someone of the opposite gender hits on you. You're not where it's expected to be different and so you have to realize it's not entirely their fault they assumed that about you.
Does this mean that the gender binary is good? or that we should support the binary? No, it certainly doesn't. But, you also have to remember that most people are gender conforming with their biology. It's not entirely insane to assume that you, as a conforming individual, would have the same conforming aspects as that other person. Especially with something as delicate as gender identity and expression.
If we don't start challenging some of the premises of the gender binary, it's never going to change.
Given the nature of our society, it's fair to assume a lot of things about people - for example, that any given woman is into wearing pretty dresses or that any given man likes to watch sports. I consider it a general feminist duty to stop making problematic assumptions about people, regardless of how statistically likely they are to be correct.
I don't think the comparison with the bar really works... it's more like a straight person assuming any person they meet is going to be straight and being offended if they find out otherwise - aka, heteronormativity.
You also have to acknowledge that most people aren't in the position to question the binary at this point. Most people -- as privileged people in some way, especially in regards to trans issues -- aren't going to think about trans gender status and what those implications might be. They're going to look at someone say "man" assume "penis" and move on. What we want for the future isn't what there is now. What there is now is what we're talking about and, while I support and endorse the binary deconstruction, I'm not naive enough to think that I'm in the majority in understanding how that social construction works.
There are a lot of things assumed by people because of society's reinforced norms, I agree. I also agree they need to be challenged and changed. This does not make them any less of the norms we're combating now and doesn't mean that there general populace is going to actually think too far gone from that norm.
's more like a straight person assuming any person they meet is going to be straight and being offended if they find out otherwise - aka, heteronormativity.
I fail to see the difference between the straight/gay interaction at the bar and what you're proposing here since heteronormativity is what causes the straight person to approach the gay one and subsequently be surprised to learn that they're gay.
But isn't that a huge part of what people do on this site, and most other feminist blogs out there? Calling people out on their privilege and asking them to think about things in ways they might not be accustomed to thinking about them?
I understand that a lot of people haven't thought about these things already, but you could say exactly the same thing about sexism, racism, etc. Most people probably don't know a reasonable definition of consent, but does that mean we shouldn't ask them to learn? It is an interesting topic, but I don't see how this is any more relevant to my comment than any other comment or post on this site that tells people to rethink what they have been taught or check their privilege.
I think I was confused about what you were trying to say with the bar example, sorry about that.
While you might think it in error that a person makes such assumptions, they fundamentally have the right to do so, and at no point does that abrogate their right to limit who they have sex with and for what reason.
I think we may be speaking on slightly different wave-lengths. The Seventeen article in question would be from someone who wouldn't necessarily be "one of us" people here. In my own practice, I can do that sort of challenging, many other people here and elsewhere in greater society are not.
Challenging the binary is a wonderful and excellent thing. I do it when I refer to myself using both masculine and feminine words (for instance calling myself both a bitch and a bastard in equal measure). De-sexing the words is one way to challenge the binary and their implicit sexual assumptions.
This, however, is something which doesn't exist in a vacuum and I think that what you've suggested lives there, at least for now. Gender-sex expectations will exist for the majority of people and, within that, the non-conformity to that will need to be discussed, or at least spoken about.
We're talking about general issues of disclosure and consent for trans gendered people in the greater society. It would make no difference to the majority of us here, but we're sadly not the majority.
"I wont use medical examples because being transgendered is not comparable to disease but rather national identity."
You're right, being trans gender is not a disease.
In my example, the fact that she had cancer was not the point. It was simply an easy to imagine explanation for why someone might have a hysterectomy or mastectomy.
My point was that after the surgery, society considers her a man and expects her to play that role, because her body no longer conforms to their expectations of women.
My experience has been that most cisgender women find that a bit easier to imagine and relate to, than trying to imagine being born with a male body while retaining their female identity, or having a male identity but keeping their female body.
Oops, that was supposed to be a response to rootedwillow
Ok so for a bit of disclosure up front (hah!) I'm female, trans, transsexual even, pass as cis (I'm neither stealth not out, I disclose when and to whom I chose to), I have a penis. I'm in a long term relationship. But if, if, that ever ended I fully expect I would never have another partner again. Why? All of this.
Basically there is not ever a good time to say "Oh btw? I have a dick, I'm trans." When could it ever be a good time? First date? That will be the last date unless one is truly lucky to have found someone not /only/ fair and openminded but who is also prepared to look beyond stereotypes and to also accept the possibility of a relationship with someone that is going to also be challenging for them to be in because of others stereotypes and expectations. And all on the first date. I can think of no better mood killer and romance destroyer than dropping that into a conversation when you are just tentatively getting to know someone. Consider:
"Hey! If this goes anywhere btw not only are you going to have to deal with some sexuality and identity issues of your own that I will cause in you unless you are by any chance bisexual (might help you but even so...) but you are going to have to relearn what you think you know about gendered bodies and sex and how to do sex and also if we get to a relationship you will /also/ have to deal with prejudice yourself from being with me and... oh... you're not sure you're interested in me... oh ... ok"
I can really see that working. I really wish to have the opportunity to mix being a living education tool on the idiocy of the binary sex and gender construct while trying to find a partner.
You want trans people to be upfront? In an ideal world everyone ought to be. In an ideal world people would /know/ the gender binary and its concepts of sex and gender are rubbish. But it isn't ideal. And that is not our fault and neither is the onus on us to personally educate everyone all the time.
So people wait until a few dates in, maybe a few months even to mention it, then you have issues of fear of rejection, fear of being called a liar, all of the things you all have been discussing. And yes, people have made some valid points. But those points take no account of the trans person in your scenarios as a feeling, fearing emotional being who is way, way more likely to be rejected and even physically hurt /just for being trans/. Do you really wonder why trans people don't want to own up on the first date? The second, third? Anyway why should we? Oh yes, otherwise we are lying...
So here we get to the meat of it. Liars. Am I lying when I pass as cis? Or only when someone else thinks I am cis and wants to fuck me? I haven't told them I am cis, they have assumed it. I haven't told them if it is ok to be attracted to me, they have assumed it. Why is that the trans person's fault? We have not created the assumption.
Yes there comes a point where one would be best off saying something, because yes a relationship does need to be based on trust and knowing your partner is not someone who hates you just for existing is a good idea. Not to mention that yes, I personally think that morally I should say something well before nudity was likely. Hell I'd be stupid not to. However, it is /not lying/ about myself if I do not say so until /I/ judge it to be the appropriate time to do so.
See I think what some people are missing here is the particular charge that the accusation of lying about gender caries for trans people. We are told, often, that we are lying just for being trans. Hell it's a big part of the trans panic defense. So when people start bandying the word about we are, unsurpringly, going to make the wider connection. Because a conversation about transgendered bodies and sexuality is not going on in a vacuum.
People are also missing the point that we suffer from huge pressure to be ashamed of our own bodies and sexuality as trans people, so telling us that /all/ the responsibility and consequences for whether people are sexually attracted to us falls on us, and that all the consequences of not coming out immediately and up front at the first signs of interest is our fault is not only insensitive but massively one sided.
As with anything, it is just not as simple as this. People are rich and complex beings and there cannot be a single solution. Responsibility in a relationship should be equally shared, and so should respect. As trans people we tend to learn through bitter experience that we cannot expect respect and indeed tend to expect the opposite, so a level of trust is needed before one feels safe to disclose. That can take time to do. We have to tread a fine line between protecting ourselves from not saying we are trans and protecting ourselves from /saying/ we are trans.
People treating our transgendered bodies as something that could be so shocking as to cause mental anguish is just not cool. Some of the comments in these two threads have been incredibly upsetting. Basically our bodies are being talked about as something potentially traumatic unless we mention it up front. We are being shamed for our bodies not conforming to the expectations of society. That sounds familiar doesn't it?
Our sexuality is being talked about as something of less relevance and importance than that of cis people. Cis people's fears, needs and feelings are being placed above those of trans people.
There needs to be perspective, balance, compassion, to and for /everyone/. Responsibility, trust and openess ought to be earned things, developed together, not imposed by default on one party simply for existing.
I've gone on enough now. Sorry it got so long, I hope some of this makes sense. Thank you for reading.
You don't need to apologise for going on so long, that was a fantastic comment. So, thank you.
I think an issue like this - until we learn, as a group, to change how we view gender - is going to be a minefield of privilege and misunderstanding. I appreciate you taking the time to explain a trans perspective.
This -
"So here we get to the meat of it. Liars. Am I lying when I pass as cis? Or only when someone else thinks I am cis and wants to fuck me? I haven't told them I am cis, they have assumed it. I haven't told them if it is ok to be attracted to me, they have assumed it. Why is that the trans person's fault? We have not created the assumption."
- needs to be read over and over again. How the assumption is dealt with is going to be different for every couple, but acknowledging that the assumption is a result of a cis, heteronormative binary rather than a deception on the trans person's part is crucially important.
Would you mind if I copied part of your comment to a friend in an email? I can link them to your site for more love. :)
Thank you ffyona :) Please do feel free to copy as much or as little as you like, link or no link :)
This was perfect!
That made plenty of sense, and was all very well said. Thank you for your perspective. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have one's own truth be called a lie, and of course if that's what going on the "you're a liar" meme would be a hardcore trigger for trans people. I'm gonna go contemplate what equal responsibility for disclosure would look like if we actually had it in society.
In college, I dated a trans man before he transitioned and still identified as female. Fortunately, since then, his partner, who he identifies as his wife has been tremendously accepting of the process---which has included testosterone therapy and top surgery. She has been, I regret to say, far more understanding than I was initially.
I suppose I didn't get it at first. He, at his own admission, still found me attractive to some degree and I think my emotional involvement/feelings of rejection probably blinded me to the fact that sexual orientation is completely separate from gender identification. Now, having educated myself, in large part due to recognizing how difficult a process transitioning has been for him, especially with conservative Christian parents, I regret my original attitudes and I'm glad he doesn't hold them against me.
I am a transgender man. If I begin dating a cis woman, should she disclose at some point that she is cis? If she did not disclose and I assume that she is trans because of society or my own life experiences, am I justified in believing that she was deceptive?
Why should trans people be held to a different standard?
I've never claimed to be a cis man, but I certainly identify as a man. If a cis person does not explicitly ask about my trans status, ze has no right say that I am lying. There is nothing about my identifying as a man that is deceptive. If a cis person's privilege leads hir to believe that all people who identify as "male" are cis men, fault lies with hir.
"If a cis person does not explicitly ask about my trans status, ze has no right say that I am lying."
I completely agree with that. Besides, there are lots of cases where what the other know is not very clear. Personally, I am quite out and tend to speak of my transness quite a lot, so I wouldn't have the idea to tell someone that I am trans, because I assume they know. Yet sometimes it's not the case, so does that mean that if I date someone that didn't realize it, I am guilty for not wearing a flashing sign saying I am trans?
And, well, if I was stealth, I don't think it would be a great sign of trust to feel the need to warn the person I'm dating at first date because I fear ze might react badly otherwise. Actually, if I *really* trusted hir, I think I wouldn't feel the need to tell hir before we get nude and ze sees by hirself.
A common theme coming up in the comments, is that transgender people should come out for their own safety.
I think most transgender people already do that, but it's extremely presumptuous for a cisgender person to tell a transgender person when they should come out, and even more presumptuous to tell a transgender person when they should feel safe to come out.
No one is in a better position to know when a transgender person is safe to come out than the transgender person themselves. Their agency and right to privacy must be respected.
Ok, What?
There is a difference between
a) "Hello, nice to meet you, I am a lady with a penis," and
b) "Sweetheart, before you decide to be in an exclusive, long-term relationship / have sex / have children with me, there is something you need to know, which is that I'm transgendered"
What is the problem here? No one is arguing that there is an obligation for people to disclose their status as transgender, and I'd like to see the person who thinks it's a good idea to fuck, marry and/or plan to have a family with someone who you're not comfortable coming out to as trans.
*That sentence should read: "No one is arguing that there is an obligation for people to disclose their status as trans gender as it's done in example 'a.'"
It's a question of agency, who has the right to decide when it happens. Some people are arguing that trans people who do not do so at the earliest possible time are essentially lying and that that is obtaining consent by deception.
We're trying to say, the timing and the right to choose how and when to come out is always with the individual doing the coming out. And that trans people presenting in their gender identity are /not lying/ about themselves by not saying they are trans. That's all.
There are some (to me) unpleasant assumptions going on under the surface of these two threads, not deliberately I think, but in general. And I think that some of the cis people replying are not seeing those and so are wondering why we trans commenters are getting upset. The answer is partly the subtexts. The underlying premises here, whether people mean them or not, are that our bodies and selves might be in some way nasty, unnatural or potentially traumatic and that we are deceptive in our gender performance if we pass enough to be attractive to someone who might otherwise find us unsuitable.
I think you're totally correct about this being easy for cis people (like myself) to miss. It took several clarifying comments before I got that this was the central point of the thread from the perspective of trans people involved. I really appreciate all the clarification, it's been incredibly helpful to me and I suspect to others as well.
Yes, this.
Yeah, that's totally legitimate. I didn't think any sane person would advocate that their own right to know whether someone they were casually dating was trans as soon as humanly possible over that person's right to only come out to people who they felt comfortable coming out to.
If anything, the only reason I think someone should hurry in the process of coming out as trans to a sexual partner is for their own sake -- i.e., not getting close enough to be put in danger by someone who might potentially turn violent upon the revelation.
I do think we should note that it would be awfully depressing if you fell madly in love with someone, decided you wanted to have children with them, and then learned that they were trans and so it was biologically impossible.
Of course, on the flip side, the potential beauty in dating a transgendered person is that a lesbian couple, for example, could have a biological child together! This possibility captivates me (as anyone who looks at my artwork can tell, I guess: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51964839@N00/3926800713/)
I do think we should note that that scenario has /nothing/ uniquely trans about it.
Once can fall madly in love with anyone and then find that children are impossible for all sorts of reasons, biological or for reasons of personal choice. It's not depressing, it's life, one deals with it as a couple, or not. Children are not the only measure of a good and happy relationship and inability to have children is something many couples or all sorts face.
I think one of the problems is what heteronormative cis courtship consists of. Sharing all the intimate details of yourself is one of those notions of how much you love someone or say, creating intimacy---and I think cisgendered people have this problem as well. (i.e. How many people have you slept with?)
For example, my boyfriend and I recently had a conversation about how we got our names. I'm not sure transpeople deal with this.
Would anyone who identifies as trans want to start a post where people could ask questions about being transgendered. I admit, I don't know everything about everything and the only way to reduce my ignorance is through knowledge and questions.
I recommend doing this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=trans+101
thank you :)
I would definitely do a google search for a 'trans 101' source, Questioning Transphobia is a good one, if I remember right.
Wanting to learn is good, but there's a history on this site of transphobic and unproductive commenting and the kind of thread you mention could potentially open up a lot of that.
It's not the minority's responsibility to educate the majority about the "ins and outs" of who they are.
Check some of the archives here, google search "Common Questions Trans" or "Trans 101", there's a ring of people on youtube who do Q/A about the transgender experience, as well.
then there is no point in activism
Activism is demanding rights and actions based on the experiences that set you apart from the majority. Activism is an extension of the day-to-day, but I don't believe that I, as a gay man, should have to tell you about the entirety of my experiences as a gay man just because you want to know.
I can certainly demand protections and be an activist for that, but it doesn't obligate me to educate you about everything it means to be gay in my experience.
What you need to know from activism is the exact information you're being told. From there you can inquire as to the need for action and inquire, but to ask or demand people to educate you about themselves isn't the core of activism.
Do you really want to know that most people in my life don't care, but I want legal protections because other people outside of my regular sphere may have issue? Or, in the case of trans rights, do you need to know that trans people are really no different but may have to go stealth because of the risk of being fired (until the ENDA gets passed, anyway)?
LGB issues are discussed every so often on this site. I've seen maybe like 3 trans posts and no intersex posts. I think most people on this site know at least one gay/lesbian/bi person. But how many of us know a trans person? How often does the trans conversation get side swept by all the other letters in the acronym? I think any conversation would be good. The more people talk about it the less they feel fear and ignorance about it. Maybe this would be better suited for someone who is a trans speaker or something like that so that people don't feel like they are being attacked and such.
The reason trans topics are not covered much is that a lot of trans people who blog feel that Feministing is not a good place to participate since there have been issues with transphobia and consistent thread derailing, for example by constant requirements to provide education that can be easily found elsewhere and often at some point a comment thread on trans subjects will devolve into the basic argument about whether trans people exist or are deluded. Feministing is not very trans friendly unfortunately. Many trans people are still boycotting it. I myself refrain from commenting unless I really, really feel moved to do so.
As a trans person who has read this blog for years, I'll second what xoros said. Feministing is generally unfriendly territory for trans folks. The main posts are usually thoughtful and well written, but the comment threads are often disastrous. Whenever I see a trans related post on this blog, I immediately start placing mental bets on whether it's going to turn into a long, ugly train wreck. I used to comment somewhat regularly here, but now I mostly lurk because of the level of ignorance and unexamined privilege that pops up.
So, a trans 101 post on Feministing? I'd give it at least 7 in 10 odds that the comments will take an ugly turn... and that's optimistic. Are there any trans folk out there who want to don their asbestos suits and MC the joyful exchange of ideas merited by such a post?
But the world revolves around me figuring out what the heck "cis" is, your feelings aside.
In all seriousness I agree completely. There's a lot of "explain trans to me" stuff here, and comments usually turn into a fight about cis or some other thing you can figure out with the magic of Google.
On Feministing the one group that's required to explain itself and its issues is trans. That's why this community is viewed (pretty fairly, if you ask me) as unfriendly to trans folks.
It's not the responsibility of EVERY person in a minority group to educate the majority but how do you expect change from the majority if you refuse to inform them? In fact how you expect the majority to be interested enough to go get educated about these issues if they don't see/hear/experience these issues.
There are a lot of people on this site who take an elitist attitude about "what you should already know" about feminism, LGBTQQIA issues and so forth. If you were never exposed to those issues how the hell are you supposed to know about them? And if only "those who are informed" are supposed to hang out on this site then it's just preaching to the choir...that wont change anything.
Then let the information be given voluntarily, not demanded under the coercion of "I won't help you until you help me understand."
This isn't a quid pro quo thing. Those in the minority can and do choose to educate us, but that's not every minority member, and not in every place. It's easy to Google stuff on trans rights and experiences without demanding, in a Feministing comment section, that those in the minority educate you.
That's an extension of privilege, the privilege of thinking you have the right to be taught anywhere at any time.
It's a tiring process to constantly have to explain your struggle, and something lots of people would prefer to avoid. Those who don't avoid it are out there, and the onus is on the majority to seek them out.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#educate2
It's helpful to understand the larger context, too. Feminism has had a really problematic relationship with trans people for decades... ever since second wave feminism came into being during the 70s. Unfortunately, similar problematic relationships exist between feminism and people of color, poor people, native people, and on, and on. That's not surprising, though. Feminism has come to represent those who have had a majority representation among women: white women, middle class women, cis (non-transgender) women, able-bodied women, etc. The majority, by sheer force of numbers and available resources, wind up setting the agenda and trajectory of a social movement. Sadly, this leaves many women behind.
Imagine that you've just met a new group of friends. At first, they seem nice and share a number of interests in common with you. Your friends decide to throw a party each month at one of their houses. They decorate the house, decide what food to serve, and choose the music. You politely ask if you might help out in some of these tasks and the response you get is, "Well... OK." Admittedly, their response is a little lukewarm, but you really like them, so you dismiss the response as a fluke and continue to hang out with them. After a few months, you begin to notice a pattern. Somehow, the house always manages to be decorated before you arrive to help. The food you bring always seems to be shoved to the back of the buffet table, behind other dishes, or worse: it gets put into the refrigerator without being served. Whenever you make a suggestion for the music, it gets ignored, or someone turns it off after people complain about how horrible it is. At one party, you accidentally overhear several of your friends laughing at how outlandish your tastes and interests are. After a while, you're feeling pretty hurt. You explain to your friends that you feel excluded. Some of your friends tell you that you're imagining things. A few others, responding in anger, inform you that you are a troublemaker and ask you to pipe down or leave.
Now, the question is this: do you continue to hang out with these people, or do you find new friends who share more in common with you and who will treat you with respect?
This is what it feels like to be a trans woman in many feminist spaces.
There is always a subgroup of marginalized folk who stick around and interact with those who have had the power to collectively establish the dominant interests and perspectives of feminism. However, after repeatedly being ignored and/or piled on by members of the majority, those marginalized people tend to seek greener pastures. We become choosier about the places where we share our lives and fight our battles. In spite of this, some of us continue to drop by on occasion to quietly listen to the conversations taking place and witness the brawls breaking out at this less-than-ideal "party." However, time and experience have shown that we are better off frequenting other venues.
We do put our words out there, for all the world to read, but we usually choose environments where abuse is less likely to occur. If you want to drop by and "share a beer," we're not hard to find. Notice that several trans people on this thread have blogs. It only takes clicking on the link embedded in our names. Visit one of those trans blogs, look at their blog roll links, follow those links, and read. Look in people's archives—many folks have a wealth of old posts. If you are interested in our lives, that's great. We're only a few clicks away.
I know I am privileged, I admit that. I wasn't assuming (as I stated before) that anyone who felt uncomfortable with talking about it should have to say anything. But there is also privilege in assuming that other people have access to resources to learn about this issue and then when they ask questions they are told they shouldn't ask those questions because they are privileged.
There are places and times to ask questions about wider or more basic info. It isn't in the middle of a discussion about a specific topic. What happens is that people /constantly/ require us as minority to start over with the basics /every single time/. We never get to move on to discuss the details, the consequences, the issues of our lives and the problems we face - and how people can be good allies. And instead of talking about the issues we end up having a discussion about this very thing. It's derailling.
If we are always being forced to start at the beginning in every single conversation we never, ever, get anywhere because we there is always someone new who insists we provide them with a 101.
Thing is, there are lots and lots of resources that you can use to learn this information. You can google it, you can read things like Questioning Transphobia and other blogs. These are all freely available online, which you obviously have access to, and some suggestions were even made to you where to look.
You insisting that you have a right to have the basic information served up to you on a plate, on demand, by a minority is imposing your privilege. The privilege of not needing to know these things. Of not having your life negatively affected by these things. It is not our responsibility to educate you about trans 101 things in the middle of a thread that does not have that as its purpose.
Doing so derails the thread by preventing us discussing the actual subject at hand. It happens almost every time here and is /incredibly/ frustrating. Not to mention that your first request was to ask a trans person to make their own personal life a teaching tool for you to learn. Their personal life. We are people not an opportunity to learn.
If you want to learn, make some effort to find out rather than just jumping into the first conversation about something to do with trans issues and saying "hey I know nothing, tell me stuff now". That is privilege. Stop telling us we have an obligation to provide you with information and use the resources at your disposal to find out, or find a comment thread or website that specifically is inviting the kind of questions you want to ask.
Then you would not be derailing and you would not be enacting privilege. Yes it's a good thing you want to learn, but it is not good how you are going about it.
You clearly have internet access. Google what you've got to Google.
Those who don't have the ability to self-educate are not posting here, generally speaking.
Sometimes it's important to say, "Stop asking questions, the world doesn't revolve around you." Those with access to the internet have a high degree of information privilege, and the ability to exercise it, so it's rude to ask a group to explain its struggle to you personally.
I find this is a topic a lot of people tend to spend a lot of time with, so I'd like to weigh in on it myself.
I'm a trans woman, and it's very difficult to find partners. Either I look at people I've known forever--and thus who know me and trust me, as I trust them--which would make a relationship really weird, or I have to look at people who don't know me and have no incentive to trust me or even listen to me when I try to explain that, yes, I'm all woman, dick included. So I have a really negative gut reaction to this idea that I have a duty to out myself to my partners, no questions asked.
I look at it as an issue of privacy. There are lots of reasons a person might have hangups about who they have sex with--some people might not want a partner who had had an abortion, or who had had a homosexual relationship in the past, or came from a certain background (say, Irish, for example). People like what they like, and if those are their hangups--no matter how absurd they seem to us--they're real and ought to be respected.
That DOESN'T mean that that person has a right to my past--but if they care strongly about something, they do have a right to ask. That also doesn't mean I have to tell them--I can refuse to answer, or perhaps head to the gray area of evasiveness--though lying IS an act of deception and thus unacceptable. So if they really don't want to sleep with a trans person, they're going to need to institute a screening process. It boils down to the same thing as managing someone else's triggers--it's not my job to manage anybody else's personal issues, and while I don't think triggers are the same as this transphobic hang-up, they're both personal issues for other people. I recognize and respect them--but only if you tell me about them. If you're not okay with asking that question: "Are you trans?" then maybe you should ask YOURSELF if you really feel that strongly about it, and why you think I ought to be running your screening process for you.
The same would apply to a person who had had an abortion. You don't want to have sex with her? Fine, that's your issue. But if she doesn't know that, why the hell would she assume that? Transphobia is probably more widespread than...abortophobia?...but I'm still not willing to simply rule myself out as a potential partner for someone without good reason.
The privacy would apply, for example, to someone with a HISTORY of sexually transmitted infections, but not someone who has one now, as having one right this moment presents a threat to the immediate physical well-being of your partner, while having had them in the past is privileged medical information. A more controversial example: a convicted sex offender has a right to privacy regarding his or her criminal record.
For another example, I have a hangup about people with transphobic attitudes. So I come out to my partners to test THEM: negative reaction means they aren't MY type, not the other way around :P
Obviously, as people have said, there are mitigating factors: for example, feeling unsafe. That said, I think Derek from the OP made several mistakes here. Someone asks about the bandages, unless you're feeling threatened, don't lie. Tell them it's not something you're comfortable talking about, at least not yet. "Nothing below the belt, we're going slow" was a good way to handle things. Of course, the shoving was way out of line, as was the douchery in bringing "the new girl" to the ex's place.
Long-term, serious relationships are different, though. I think you really do lose a degree of privacy in those, and thus need to be aware of what degree of disclosure your partners thinks is going on. And lying is still not okay--I always talk about myself as a little girl because that's how I experienced my life, but I was in the Boy Scouts, much to my chagrin, so the stories I can tell without raising questions I'm not ready to answer are limited. That's something trans people need to decide for ourselves, on a case-by-case basis, though.
I think this is a particularly complex issue for those of us who haven't yet or don't plan to, get surgery or other medical intervention, simply because it makes the kind of sexuality a partner most likely enjoys (or is simply expecting; after all, they shouldn't knock it 'til they've tried it :P) more complex. The level of disclosure there is, again, something that the trans person needs to set and navigate him-/her-/hirself.