As if the policy doesn't leave a bad enough taste in your mouth, the reality of it is even better:
Pentagon statistics obtained by University of California researchers show that women are far more likely than men to be kicked out of the military under the "don't ask, don't tell policy" banning openly gay servicemembers.
Every military branch dismissed a disproportionate number of women in 2008 under the policy banning openly gay servicemembers. But the discrepancy was particularly marked in the Air Force, where women were a majority of those let go under the policy, even though they made up only 20 percent of personnel.
Across the military, women represented about one-third of the 619 people discharged based on sexual orientation. They account for just 15 percent of servicemembers.
America, fuck yeah!
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The military is still a boys club and I think that a silent, but still palpable resentment against women in uniform will exist for quite some time.
But where is the information showing that the gay males who come out are not kicked out as often as the gay females?
This information could just possibly mean that there are more honest gay females in the armed forces than gay males. And if this assumption is true, it could go along with the still-popular stereotypes of straight females and gay males "not belonging" in something like the armed forces.
You gotta be joking. Women are 20% of the Air Force and over 50% of the people let go over DADT, and you're going to chalk that up to simple female honesty? You don't think they want to be soldiers as much as men to keep this shit under wraps? You believe that's more likely than male soldiers being more often protected because they're viewed by COs or whoever as useful? Really?
What you're suggesting is about as likely as Karl Rove being a closet Democrat. Strike that- closet Green Party.
You believe that's more likely than male soldiers being more often protected because they're viewed by COs or whoever as useful? Really?
In my basic training company (Army), there were several lesbian relationships quietly (and not so quietly) going on in the female bay. During one health and welfare inspections (Drill sergeants ransacking everyone's stuff) a love note from one female soldier to another was discovered. It was read aloud to the platoon. No disciplinary action was taken. All of them graduated.
Two male soldiers were caught in a highly suspect situation in which it was extremely likely some kind of sexual act was occuring. They were gone from the unit the next day, and chaptered out of the Army.
It is much more acceptable - and far less dangerous - to be an openly gay female in the armed forces than it is to be an openly gay male.
I'd agree that "more likely to be openly gay" seems like a goofy idea (though this may be our biases more than facts, obviously an empirical measure would be preferable.)
What's assumed here, and is probably not true, is that homosexual men, and homosexual women are equally likely to serve in the military. However, men who're openly gay are less likely than the average man to have served in the military, while women who're openly gay are more likely than the average woman to have served in the military. (http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/demographics,3.html) I don't know whether it's sufficient to make up the reported gap, but the prior you've assumed here is probably wrong. Perhaps not dissimilarly, when the Canadian military began extending benefits to same sex partners, everyone who applied (at least initially) was a woman, not a man (http://www.palmcenter.org/node/555)
I know that its not true that gay men (and straight women) are not/less "inclined" to serve in the armies as compared to straight men (and lesbian women), its just that the stereotype of the strong brave person does not include straight women and gay men. Not that I have experience with the military, its just that it seems that it would be easier to tell your macho sexist fellow soldiers you are a lesbian than a gay man.
No, when you measure it, it is true that gay men are less likely to serve in the military than straight men, and gay women are more likely to serve in the military than straight women. The measurement taken there isn't about openness with respect to orientation while in the military, but taken long after they've quit.
There's no reason to assume that every demographic must behave the same, don't try and project your biases or assume they must be true, just measure it and see what's true.
Think about how the math works on this, using the Air Force example. Twenty percent of personnel are female. That means there are four times as many men as women in the service.
For simplicity's sake, say fifty percent of personnel ejected due to DADT are female. That means either lesbians make up a percentage of female soldiers four times the ratio of gay men to all male soldiers, or women are being disproportionately booted.
I don't doubt what you're saying is true to the extent that a higher percentage of female soldiers will be lesbians than male soldiers who are gay. But to this extent? I don't know. A magnitude of four is significant. I wouldn't say it's implausible, I just wouldn't put my money on it.
In the link I cited, they claimed lesbians were overrepresented by a factor of four, in fact. They also claimed gay men were underrepresented, though they didn't give a factor. We'd need to know that factor, since a higher proportion of men are homosexual than women.
Like I said, don't try to guesstimate numbers where you don't have a basis. Just measure them.
Geez, the fact it wasn't an actual link made me miss it. I'm starting to fail at internet.
Ok, fair enough. I appear to be wrong. My bad.
I still don't take the claim that women serve at such a higher rate at face value. As long as there is a policy like DADT is nearly impossible to clearly identify.
For one women have been known to not answer yes to the veterans question because they don't identify as veterans. When the question was changed to "have you served in the military" there were more yes answers. The study cited doesn't explain its numbers. Does it take into account the rate at which men serve?
If it it less dangerous for women to be out aren't they more likely to answer yes anyway?
Many gay people won't even identify as gay on a census, so it doesn't seem like the most accurate.
Two thing we DO KNOW:
Women are dischrged at a higher rate
The social face of DADT is still male, despite the arguments made above or the hard numbers. (this is what gets me- if women DO serve at such a higher rate and are kicked out nearly as much- why is that that men are still the only people we see on the media? I guess thats not sexist either).