"It's so preventable, and that's the tragedy."
I wish I had more time to write about this but at the moment I'm completely swamped with homework.
Anyway, unsafe abortions reportedly kill 70,000 women annually. Read on, and share your thoughts.
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I agree about how its so preventable. One thing that always gets me is how could someone have sex without any form of contraception, even condoms? I'm just assuming that they know about pregnancy and everything.
Your comments are starting to get really fucking annoying on this blog, because of your sheer ignorance, and your obvious anti-choice stands.
For an obvious answer, try: lack of comprehensive sex education; that, perhaps, condoms break; other contraceptive options are unvailable to economically disadvantaged women; some women are forced into sex, either as prostitutes, or they are raped.
Rather than passing the buck back women who don't know about "pregnancy and everything else," perhaps you ought to reach out to those women, and ensure that both women and men have the opportunity to take responsibility for their sexuality.
Unintended pregnancies and abortions would be dramatically reduced if zealot, dull-minded conservatives would actually support comprehensive sex education, instead of treating sex like some taboo, dirty, nasty thing only to be talked about and done during marriage.
Besides, if sex is so dirty, being in a "blessed" relationship, or marriage, really isn't going to change how dirty it really is.
"Your comments are starting to get really fucking annoying on this blog, because of your sheer ignorance, and your obvious anti-choice stands."
Because one cannot be a feminist and be pro-life? What next, I can't be a feminist and a conservative Republican? Or maybe a feminist and a gun-rights supporter? Or a feminist and a stay-at-home mom? Or maybe a feminist and a good-looking woman, or a feminist and a straight woman, or etc? What other stereotypes would you like to try to force on me?
I really don't support categorizing people of certain movements, and I see no reason to give in to that.
I apologize if my beliefs differing from yours is fucking annoying you. Its not their purpose to fucking annoy you, and if you find them fucking annoying, I really can't say anything except I am sorry you do not like them.
"For an obvious answer, try: lack of comprehensive sex education; that, perhaps, condoms break; other contraceptive options are unvailable to economically disadvantaged women; some women are forced into sex, either as prostitutes, or they are raped."
Or maybe the fucking annoying link, of which the FIRST TWO paragraphs were:
Increased contraceptive use has led to fewer abortions worldwide, but deaths from unsafe abortion remain a severe problem, killing 70,000 women a year, a research institute reported Tuesday in a major global survey.
More than half the deaths, about 38,000, are in sub-Saharan Africa, which was singled out as the region with by far the lowest rates of contraceptive use and the highest rates of unintended pregnancies.
"Rather than passing the buck back women who don't know about "pregnancy and everything else," perhaps you ought to reach out to those women, and ensure that both women and men have the opportunity to take responsibility for their sexuality.
Unintended pregnancies and abortions would be dramatically reduced if zealot, dull-minded conservatives would actually support comprehensive sex education, instead of treating sex like some taboo, dirty, nasty thing only to be talked about and done during marriage."
I appreciate your effort to stereotype me as a radical conservative who does not support sex education and who thinks sex is dirty. I unfortunately am none of those and I really do not think sex is dirty. I also do not support marriage in any secular form and think it should be banned forever in place of simple civil unions for all.
Or maybe I don't? I guess you know what I believe.
"Besides, if sex is so dirty, being in a "blessed" relationship, or marriage, really isn't going to change how dirty it really is."
If my posts fucking annoy you so much, maybe you would have actually read them, to find when I say that I am an agnostic?
Sorry I don't fit any of your stereotypes.
And I had nothing else to say. Sorry that it hurts.
(Wait, I forgot, I can't listen to those skinny rapper guys in their scene pants, I am a radical conservative Christian who listens to nothing but Gregorian chant. In fact, what am I doing on this computer? I am a Southern redneck wife wearing long dresses who doesn't go out of the kitchen, and I certainly don't know how to use a computer. What am I doing at college? What am I doing outside of a marriage in my teens? What am I doing blogging about feminism, since I am not a feminist? I earnestly apologize, I sometimes forget other people's higher knowledge of who I am.)
Seriously though, I find it amusing when people stereotype me. Considering that feminism is all about destroying the deliberating stereotypes forced upon women, that you should be angry at me for not following other stereotypes. And I lol'd.
You should probably look up the cultural and sociological reasons that sub-Saharan Africa has the lowest rates of contraceptive use rather than just assume that the people there can't be arsed to take contraception.
And FWIW, I DON'T think a person can actively be pro-life and be a feminist, no matter how liberal he or she is in other aspects of life.
Well, I am a pro-life feminist. And, I still don't see the difference.
As far as contraception goes... I personally have been dismayed to find I know several people who would have (and have had) sex without a condom if they didn't have any or couldn't afford them (one girl I know plans to have a "backroad" abortion so her parents don't know. I plan to give her condoms, although she still doesn't use them); I personally can simply not understand this. I can't understand how a couple Its just a lack of understanding on my part, because I can't figure it out.
I also know people who are well-aware of why contraception use is better for them, but they choose not to anyway due to lack of resources, finding that contraception (or even talking about it) is not sexy, or just out of plain laziness.
But I also recognize that some people just do not know because they are fed lies (usually by religious nut-case conservatives) or they are just not told at all (usually because of religious nut-case conservatives). I personally thought for the longest time that condoms would present you with a higher chance of getting AIDS (catholic all girls high school "sex ed"...) so unless someone is purposefully just not using contraception, I don't think it is fair to make them feel like they are ignorant.
Are those extremist Christian missionaries still used or something? I thought that shit went out in like 1850 or something. Seriously?
You can call yourself a feminist. You can call yourself a duck. Doesn't make either true.
If I can't morally be forced to donate blood just once, even to someone *I* injured, I can't morally be forced to endure 9 months of pregnancy. Any suggestion otherwise IS putting the fetus above the mother, and is therefore antifeminist.
I have to agree that it is not very possible (or ideal at the least) to be a pro-life feminist, at least in the sense of what being pro-life means.
People who are pro-life identify as being so because they do not think that abortion is right. They may not be in favor of banning it, they may not be in favor of shaming women who get abortions, but they also do not understand that a an already existing human with a life of her own TRUMPS an potential human. If you thought that all women should naturally have a motherly instinct, even if you don't force women to be mothers or make them feel bad if they don't have children, that still is a sexist attitude to have because you still have an expectation of some sort, even if you do not put it in action. If you think that whites are naturally smarter than blacks, even if you don't voice it that still makes you racist. Etcetera...
Pro-choice also carries some connotations with it in the sense that pro-choice people normally do not hold a negative opinion of abortion (some might - the whole 'no one likes it but its necessary) but in my experience, many pro-choice people I have met would not think twice to get an abortion if they needed one and would not feel bad about it. And they should not feel bad about it. The fact of the matter is that my choice is mine and you should have no opinion over what I do in my private life, especially if it is not affecting you.
And yet you are talking about the rough and generalized pro-life position. I believe in abortion being illegalized except when the fetus/'s existence threatens the mother seriously- which would not include putting the life of the fetus over the mother's life, and therefore would be compatible with feminism.
There also are people who believe that abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape/physical harm to the mother, or except for mental/physical harm, or all the above, or physical harm and financial inability, and/or very young or very old, etc.
And all those people could be identifying themselves as being pro-life, and yet all of them would (most likely) fit your criteria of not holding the child's life above the mother's.
So...you are serious when you say that you believe that abortion should be made illegal except if the mother's life is at stake?
If that's true, then you are even more anti-feminist than I thought...Not even trying to be rude or anything, but I am completely baffled as to how you can possibly call yourself a feminist and still be ok with saying "you want an abortion? well, is your life at stake? no? well too bad then because i think you should not be able to make that choice unless you are gonna die." That is denying choice so therefore = anti-feminist.
If that's not what you meant (which would be me completely misunderstanding and if i did, sorry about that) then I'm not sure what your first paragraph meant.
No, you had it right... sort of.
Not just life at stake, but serious physical/psychological harm.
Because, well, sure it sucks to be pregnant if you don't want to, but it was your actions that had this happen (just to clarify: rape victims would most likely fall under the serious harm category). And if you consider the fetus as having the same rights as an infant- which I do, and which is irrelevant also- then there really is no reason to warrant killing another.
And yes, an uneventful pregnancy is a physical drain, and could be said to cause physical harm, but minor physical harm. And, in my mind, minor physical harm (which is temporary, except for possible damage which is merely cosmetic) is not sufficient reason for killing in self-defense-- no matter what the age of the perpetrator.
So... whether or not I am wrong is one thing, but, with the explanation I have given, you see that my reasoning, whether invalid or not, is not anti-feminist, right?
::sigh:: If I can't be forced to give just blood a single time, even to save the life of someone I ran into/stabbed/etc., I shouldn't be forced to endure 9 months of pregnancy and then childbirth.
Saying otherwise DOES give pregnant women fewer rights over their own body than nonpregnant women or men, and therefore IS antifeminist.
No. You're anti-choice, you're anti-feminist. It is anti-feminist to say that women only deserve bodily autonomy when YOU think their reasons are good enough. What is hard to understand about this? It is not feminist to restrict women's choices about THEIR OWN BODIES according to your own personal values. You don't want an abortion, don't have one. You don't get to make that choice for others who don't share your values. If you support forced pregnancy, for anyone, you are not feminist. If you deny a woman the right to make her own choice, you are not feminist.
It is anti-feminist to think you can determine what constitutes "serious harm" for every woman, and that you can determine that regular pregnancy is not a big deal and women should just suck it up and deal with it, the hell with their feelings, their health, and the effects on their lives, employment and finances. It's also anti-feminist that you say a woman should be forced to go through an unwanted pregnancy because "her actions" caused it. That's called sex-shaming. Pregnancy is not a punishment for sex, nor is it a requirement for any woman who wants to be sexually active. And if a woman's birth control fails, then she's actually gotten pregnant *in spite of* "her actions" to prevent pregnancy. Not that it's any of your business, since it's NOT YOUR BODY and therefore you have NO RIGHT to decide what will be done with it. And since an embryo only exists as a part of another woman's body, you don't get a say in what happens to it, either, regardless of your feelings about it.
"No. You're anti-choice, you're anti-feminist."
They are two separate movements and two separate beliefs.
"It is anti-feminist to say that women only deserve bodily autonomy when YOU think their reasons are good enough."
So you think I believe what I believe arbitrarily? Or maybe I believe what I believe because I think its right.
So yeah, I do think that women should get abortions because of reasons that I think are true.
Would you prefer that I believe what someone else thinks is true?
"What is hard to understand about this?"
Nothing.
"It is not feminist to restrict women's choices about THEIR OWN BODIES according to your own personal values."
Feminism isn't a woman's movement. Its a woman's rights movement. And I don't think its about the woman's bodies, its about the fetus, up until the fetus is potentially causing harm.
And once again, I would prefer to use my own personal values, as I don't see any reason to use another's, especially when I think they are wrong.
"You don't want an abortion, don't have one."
I am not pregnant and never have been; my wishes about my own personal abortion which don't exist are irrelevant.
"You don't get to make that choice for others who don't share your values."
So if the guy coming up to me doesn't share my values that you shouldn't mug people, is it okay then?
"If you support forced pregnancy,"
Pregnancy has already occurred. You are confusing opposing abortion with opposing contraception.
"for anyone,"
Anyone? Like, men and women?
"you are not feminist."
Because....
"If you deny a woman the right to make her own choice, you are not feminist."
Uh, really? If I tell my guy druggie friends to stay away from my pills, its okay, but if I deny my female druggie friends my medication, I am suddenly a misogynist?
I don't think so. Denying women choices is irrelevant to feminism.
"It is anti-feminist to think you can determine"
Could you kindly stop assuming what I believe? Because I really do not recall saying anything about dictatorship or anything. I really don't think that I said I personally was going to choose anything for anyone.
"what constitutes "serious harm" for every woman,"
Thanks for again assuming what I believe. As I have stated before, I would not be the one doing the deciding.
"and that you can determine that regular pregnancy is not a big deal and women should just suck it up and deal with it, the hell with their feelings, their health,"
Sorry, but I really see no reason to discuss this with you if you continue assuming random things about my beliefs.
Actually, wait, I JUST SAID that I thought abortions should be allowed in cases of serious mental/physical harm.
"and the effects on their lives, employment and finances. It's also anti-feminist that you say a woman should be forced to go through an unwanted pregnancy because "her actions" caused it. That's called sex-shaming."
It's not called sex-shaming. It's called cause and effect.
Sexual reproduction normally leads to reproduction. That's why its called sexual reproduction.
"Pregnancy is not a punishment for sex,"
No where did I say it was.
"nor is it a requirement for any woman who wants to be sexually active."
No where did I say that either. You are arguing against positions I do not hold.
"And if a woman's birth control fails, then she's actually gotten pregnant *in spite of* "her actions" to prevent pregnancy."
Birth control or no birth control, the natural effect of sexual reproduction is reproduction.
"Not that it's any of your business,"
How come it is yours? Why can you hold your opinions and I can't hold mine?
"since it's NOT YOUR BODY and therefore you have NO RIGHT to decide what will be done with it. And since an embryo only exists as a part of another woman's body,"
Except that it isn't. It exists inside the woman's body, its not a part of it like an organ or something.
"you don't get a say in what happens to it, either, regardless of your feelings about it."
Excuse me then. I think I will stop having opinions that differ from the mainstream. Sorry.
"No. You're anti-choice, you're anti-feminist."
They are two separate movements and two separate beliefs.
"It is anti-feminist to say that women only deserve bodily autonomy when YOU think their reasons are good enough."
So you think I believe what I believe arbitrarily? Or maybe I believe what I believe because I think its right.
So yeah, I do think that women should get abortions because of reasons that I think are true.
Would you prefer that I believe what someone else thinks is true?
"What is hard to understand about this?"
Nothing.
"It is not feminist to restrict women's choices about THEIR OWN BODIES according to your own personal values."
Feminism isn't a woman's movement. Its a woman's rights movement. And I don't think its about the woman's bodies, its about the fetus, up until the fetus is potentially causing harm.
And once again, I would prefer to use my own personal values, as I don't see any reason to use another's, especially when I think they are wrong.
"You don't want an abortion, don't have one."
I am not pregnant and never have been; my wishes about my own personal abortion which don't exist are irrelevant.
"You don't get to make that choice for others who don't share your values."
So if the guy coming up to me doesn't share my values that you shouldn't mug people, is it okay then?
"If you support forced pregnancy,"
Pregnancy has already occurred. You are confusing opposing abortion with opposing contraception.
"for anyone,"
Anyone? Like, men and women?
"you are not feminist."
Because....
"If you deny a woman the right to make her own choice, you are not feminist."
Uh, really? If I tell my guy druggie friends to stay away from my pills, its okay, but if I deny my female druggie friends my medication, I am suddenly a misogynist?
I don't think so. Denying women choices is irrelevant to feminism.
"It is anti-feminist to think you can determine"
Could you kindly stop assuming what I believe? Because I really do not recall saying anything about dictatorship or anything. I really don't think that I said I personally was going to choose anything for anyone.
"what constitutes "serious harm" for every woman,"
Thanks for again assuming what I believe. As I have stated before, I would not be the one doing the deciding.
"and that you can determine that regular pregnancy is not a big deal and women should just suck it up and deal with it, the hell with their feelings, their health,"
Sorry, but I really see no reason to discuss this with you if you continue assuming random things about my beliefs.
Actually, wait, I JUST SAID that I thought abortions should be allowed in cases of serious mental/physical harm.
"and the effects on their lives, employment and finances. It's also anti-feminist that you say a woman should be forced to go through an unwanted pregnancy because "her actions" caused it. That's called sex-shaming."
It's not called sex-shaming. It's called cause and effect.
Sexual reproduction normally leads to reproduction. That's why its called sexual reproduction.
"Pregnancy is not a punishment for sex,"
No where did I say it was.
"nor is it a requirement for any woman who wants to be sexually active."
No where did I say that either. You are arguing against positions I do not hold.
"And if a woman's birth control fails, then she's actually gotten pregnant *in spite of* "her actions" to prevent pregnancy."
Birth control or no birth control, the natural effect of sexual reproduction is reproduction.
"Not that it's any of your business,"
How come it is yours? Why can you hold your opinions and I can't hold mine?
"since it's NOT YOUR BODY and therefore you have NO RIGHT to decide what will be done with it. And since an embryo only exists as a part of another woman's body,"
Except that it isn't. It exists inside the woman's body, its not a part of it like an organ or something.
"you don't get a say in what happens to it, either, regardless of your feelings about it."
Excuse me then. I think I will stop having opinions that differ from the mainstream. Sorry.
I cannot believe how incredibly distracting you are. You are not even doing it purposefully, you are doing it because you honestly think you are arguing correctly.
"So yeah, I do think that women should get abortions because of reasons that I think are true."
No one is telling you that you cannot think something or believe something. We are however telling you that your belief is anti-feminist because you believe in restricting choice based on your values. And you are NOT allowed to try and put law in effect that will limit women's choice because that is not your place, just like I am not allowed to tell you that if you should ever get pregnant, you have to get an abortion because I PERSONALLY think you are not ready. It does not make sense.
"Feminism isn't a woman's movement. Its a woman's rights movement."
Uh...and women's rights have nothing to do with women?
"And I don't think its about the woman's bodies, its about the fetus, up until the fetus is potentially causing harm."
No,l abortion IS about women's bodies and you cannot deny this at all. It is a woman's BODY that a fetus is living inside of. Some people might think that abortion is about the fetus, but the logical people know that the fetus is not nearly as relevant as is the issue of someone forcing a woman to do what they want her to do based on their own beliefs. If you believe a woman should be restricted from having an abortion except in cases of rape or if her life is at stake, then you are RESTRICTING THE CHOICE OF WOMEN WHO DO NOT FIT INTO THAT CATEGORY, END.
"I am not pregnant and never have been; my wishes about my own personal abortion which don't exist are irrelevant."
Yes they are relevant because if you were to get pregnant, no one would force you to have an abortion based on our own personal beliefs, which is what pro-life persons attempt to do.
"Denying women choices is irrelevant to feminism."
....this is just a what the fuck moment. Do you REALLY understand what you just said? I can't even answer this because it is something that someone completely oblivious to feminism would say...
"Pregnancy is not a punishment for sex,
No where did I say it was.
nor is it a requirement for any woman who wants to be sexually active.
No where did I say that either. You are arguing against positions I do not hold."
You said: Because, well, sure it sucks to be pregnant if you don't want to, but it was your actions that had this happen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "YOUR ACTIONS" therefore, you are shaming someone who has sex just for the purpose of having sex and not for the purpose of reproduction.
"Birth control or no birth control, the natural effect of sexual reproduction is reproduction."
Who are you to decide that the SOLE PURPOSE of sex is reproduction? Yes, reproduction happens from sex but that does not equal a solid statement saying "sex was made for reproduction."
"How come it is yours? Why can you hold your opinions and I can't hold mine?"
*sigh* Because YOUR opinions are trying to LIMIT the control that women have over their own bodies! I cannot see why you do not understand this. You have NO RIGHT to place a law on women restricting them from making choices about what happens to their bodies.
"Except that it isn't. It exists inside the woman's body, its not a part of it like an organ or something."
The point is, it is living off of and existing inside a woman's body possibly against her will. If she wants the baby, then she gives birth to it which is still giving her control over her body and her fetus. Why can't women who have a fetus living inside HER body make a choice to have the fetus removed? Oh right, because you think she is murdering a baby, my bad. What you think trumps what she thinks because you think you are right, so even though it's her body, because you think you are right she loses control of what happens to her body. Makes sense.
"Excuse me then. I think I will stop having opinions that differ from the mainstream. Sorry."
You need to stop making this about us attacking your opinions because we are not (even though we think your opinions are disgusting...but hey, that's just our opinion.) What we are attacking is the fact that you are ok with the fact that people are trying to put laws into effect that prohibit women from making choices about their own bodies because someone else thinks that they can make better choices for them. I don't know if you participate in any pro-life rallies or anything and if you don't, thank you for that. But if you have ever voted on a law that would make abortion illegal, make partial-birth abortion illegal, make teens get parental consent in order to get abortions, etc...then you have ACTIVELY PARTICIPATED IN THE SUBJUGATION OF WOMEN'S CHOICES AND RIGHTS. NO EXCEPTIONS because you chose to try and get a law passed that had the potential to change society around and make it illegal for women to have a choice in something.
I hope this has finally gotten through to you. Keep your opinions, no one cares about that. But don't come on here preaching about being attacked when you would never even consider getting an abortion and so you would never be put in that situation of having choice taken away from you.
First, you're not just "having an opinion," you're trying to force that opinion onto everyone else. That is the WHOLE point here, and it's hilarious that you get all huffy and butt-hurt about it when you're arguing for the right to control women's bodies and lives and force everyone to live according to your single narrow-minded perspective.
They are two separate movements and two separate beliefs.
Nope. If you don't support women's rights and bodily autonomy, you're anti-feminist. Period.
So you think I believe what I believe arbitrarily? Or maybe I believe what I believe because I think its right.
So yeah, I do think that women should get abortions because of reasons that I think are true. Would you prefer that I believe what someone else thinks is true?
So what if you think it's right? That doesn't make it any less arbitrary, it's just what you've made up and declared to be right. Believe what you want, but stop trying to force your beliefs on others and allow them to conduct their lives according to THEIR beliefs.
Feminism isn't a woman's movement. Its a woman's rights movement. And I don't think its about the woman's bodies, its about the fetus, up until the fetus is potentially causing harm.
And once again, I would prefer to use my own personal values, as I don't see any reason to use another's, especially when I think they are wrong.
Except the fetus is in a woman's body, making physical changes to a woman's body, and cannot survive without that woman's body. So it's actually pretty much all about the woman's body, unless you think women are just fetus incubators. And once again, why should your own personal values rule other women's lives?
I am not pregnant and never have been; my wishes about my own personal abortion which don't exist are irrelevant.
Nope. Your own personal abortion is the only one in which you get a say, so it's the only case in which your feelings about abortion ARE relevant.
So if the guy coming up to me doesn't share my values that you shouldn't mug people, is it okay then?
Stealing from another human is not equivalent to making a medical decision about your own body. Funny you try to use a comparison involving personal violation when you support violating women's bodily autonomy, though.
Pregnancy has already occurred. You are confusing opposing abortion with opposing contraception.
I'm not confusing anything. Forcing a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy is forced pregnancy. And you support it.
Anyone? Like, men and women?
For anyone, meaning, "like," regardless of whether they were raped or are going to die or can't afford a child or just don't want to be pregnant. Meaning you don't get a cookie just because you don't think a woman should be forced to die bearing a child. You don't get to force childbirth on ANYONE regardless of your feelings about how valid their reasons for not wanting childbirth are.
Uh, really? If I tell my guy druggie friends to stay away from my pills, its okay, but if I deny my female druggie friends my medication, I am suddenly a misogynist?
I don't think so. Denying women choices is irrelevant to feminism.
It's really, really not, but since you're utterly ignorant of what feminism IS about, I'm not surprised you think that. Also, more analogy (and logic!) fail from the anti-choicer: advising someone not to take harmful illegal drugs is in no way similar to not controlling a woman's body and private reproductive choices.
Are you also going to argue that forcing women to wear burqas is okay because it's perfectly acceptable to deny a woman the right to make her own choice? After all, it's all just like denying druggies drugs! Revealing clothes aren't GOOD for women after all!
Could you kindly stop assuming what I believe? Because I really do not recall saying anything about dictatorship or anything. I really don't think that I said I personally was going to choose anything for anyone.
Um, hello, you're anti-choice. You ARE trying to choose for everyone. You think abortion kills babies, you think it shouldn't be allowed except when the woman's in "serious" life-threatening danger, and you want to force your personal beliefs and choice on everyone. You want to control what women can do with their own bodies. You've stated what you believe very clearly. The only choice is YOUR WAY. How is that not dictatorship?
Thanks for again assuming what I believe. As I have stated before, I would not be the one doing the deciding. Sorry, but I really see no reason to discuss this with you if you continue assuming random things about my beliefs.
You think a fetus is more important than a woman. You think that unless she is going to DIE, her life, livelihood, feelings, fears and health take a backseat to incubating a fetus and she should be forced to go through nine months of physical changes, discomfort, unhappiness, and medical expenses against her will. You think she shouldn't be allowed to choose; you think she should have to be pregnant even if she doesn't want to. If you didn't think this, you wouldn't be trying to deny women the right to choose.
Actually, wait, I JUST SAID that I thought abortions should be allowed in cases of serious mental/physical harm.
Actually, you JUST SAID that "uneventful pregnancy" was only "minor" and not a big enough deal to warrant an abortion. (Because women totally know twelve weeks in if they're going to have an easy pregnancy or not.) So those women should just suck it up and deal with it and to hell with the risks, physical changes, discomfort, unhappiness, and effect on her life.
Sexual reproduction normally leads to reproduction. That's why its called sexual reproduction...You are arguing against positions I do not hold.
If you don't realize that people have sex for reasons other than reproduction, there's no helping you. That doesn't mean they want or should have to reproduce. And when you say, "You had sex and sex is meant for reproduction, therefore you have to be pregnant against your will!" you are treating sex as both a punishment for sexuality and as an inevitable consequence of being female. Neither are feminist positions. I'm sure like most hypocrites you have no problem with sex when YOU are having it, but you're still trying to penalize other women for engaging in it. If they have sex, according to you, they risk giving up their personhood to a fetus.
Birth control or no birth control, the natural effect of sexual reproduction is reproduction.
So women are controlled by biology and everyone who doesn't want to remain a virgin forever has to risk being forced into an unwanted pregnancy. Typical anti-feminist anti-sexer.
Yea, I have to agree once again that the belief you hold is in no way feminist. You are absolutely anti-choice because in your mind, a woman has no right to "kill" her child because "she" was the one who put herself in a position to get pregnant and so therefore "she" has to bear the burden. That is the definition of anti-choice and I have never heard this is a feminist context because it just does not work that way. Being feminist does not mean you have to like abortion, but it does mean that you have to accept that women have a right to make that choice in ANY situation, even if you would personally never make that choice. It does not affect you, so you should not be saying a word about someone else's choice.
Right on!!
Get out of here troll.
I'd agree that forced prostitution/rape plays a much larger role in unwanted pregnancies in Africa than it does elsewhere. But how about a lack of sexual standards?
Rather than passing the buck back women who don't know about "pregnancy and everything else," perhaps you ought to reach out to those women, and ensure that both women and men have the opportunity to take responsibility for their sexuality.Unintended pregnancies and abortions would be dramatically reduced if zealot, dull-minded conservatives would actually support comprehensive sex education, instead of treating sex like some taboo, dirty, nasty thing only to be talked about and done during marriage.
Actually, contraceptive abortions account for alomst three quarters of all abortions in america - nearly three million per year. No serious conservative or pro-lifer would ever support hormonal contraception. We support sexual standards, not sexual hedonism. And I don't know where you're getting the idea that we hate sex in general.
The divorce rate, out of wedlock birth rate, and percentage of children who do not get to grow up with both of their birth parents would dramatically decrease as well as unintended pregnancies if self-control and sexual standards prevailed.
Let me try again:
For an obvious answer, try: lack of comprehensive sex education; that, perhaps, condoms break; other contraceptive options are unvailable to economically disadvantaged women; some women are forced into sex, either as prostitutes, or they are raped.
I'd agree that forced prostitution/rape plays a much larger role in unwanted pregnancies in Africa than it does elsewhere. But how about a lack of sexual standards?
Rather than passing the buck back women who don't know about "pregnancy and everything else," perhaps you ought to reach out to those women, and ensure that both women and men have the opportunity to take responsibility for their sexuality.
Unintended pregnancies and abortions would be dramatically reduced if zealot, dull-minded conservatives would actually support comprehensive sex education, instead of treating sex like some taboo, dirty, nasty thing only to be talked about and done during marriage.
Actually, contraceptive abortions account for alomst three quarters of all abortions in america - nearly three million per year. No serious conservative or pro-lifer would ever support hormonal contraception. We support sexual standards, not sexual hedonism. And I don't know where you're getting the idea that we hate sex in general.
The divorce rate, out of wedlock birth rate, and percentage of children who do not get to grow up with both of their birth parents would dramatically decrease as well as unintended pregnancies if self-control and sexual standards prevailed.
But how about a lack of sexual standards?
How about basic human rights and sharing of resources such as improved literacy and education (including comprehensive sex ed) and access to the labor force?
Because these are the things proven to improve as you say, sexual standards. Even in the US, the communities with the highest out of wedlock births and single motherhood are those with less economic participation and fewer resources in their communities.
And incidentally, some of the most sexually "conservative" countries are plagued by forced prostitution, child prostitution and child marriages.
Of course this illustrates a glaring double standard in your argument. Because when communities call for self-control, it is almost always one sided in terms of men and women; The cry for "self control" is universally at the expense of women and children.
Furthermore I don't really see any evidence that any culture has more self control over any others, including traditional conservatives. The fear mongering for example used to implore people to behave a certain way is certainly no evidence of self control.
In most cases choices regarding sexual partners can be traced to decision based on the environment, resources, and education, status of women. This has been studied quite extensively. You might want to pick up an anthropology book or two; even the economists have their take on sex now too. TED talks has a nice presentation on data regarding HIV rates in some southern and central African communities and it's quite illuminating in terms of sexual choices and the environment.
Contraceptive abortions? You mean, like, taking contraceptives to, god forbid, stop oneself from getting pregnant?
Rather than defining sexual standards, how about you keep those standards within your own homes, and let other people do whatever they want?
I don't tell you not to pray while you're on your knees, I'd appreciate it if you don't tell me not to go down on a woman while I am on my knees.
And sexual standards worked real women for you conservatives and Bristol Palin, right?
Let me try again:
For an obvious answer, try: lack of comprehensive sex education; that, perhaps, condoms break; other contraceptive options are unvailable to economically disadvantaged women; some women are forced into sex, either as prostitutes, or they are raped.
I'd agree that forced prostitution/rape plays a much larger role in unwanted pregnancies in Africa than it does elsewhere. But how about a lack of sexual standards?
Rather than passing the buck back women who don't know about "pregnancy and everything else," perhaps you ought to reach out to those women, and ensure that both women and men have the opportunity to take responsibility for their sexuality. Unintended pregnancies and abortions would be dramatically reduced if zealot, dull-minded conservatives would actually support comprehensive sex education, instead of treating sex like some taboo, dirty, nasty thing only to be talked about and done during marriage.
Actually, contraceptive abortions account for alomst three quarters of all abortions in america - nearly three million per year. No serious conservative or pro-lifer would ever support hormonal contraception. We support sexual standards, not sexual hedonism. And I don't know where you're getting the idea that we hate sex in general.
The divorce rate, out of wedlock birth rate, and percentage of children who do not get to grow up with both of their birth parents would dramatically decrease as well as unintended pregnancies if self-control and sexual standards prevailed.
Wow, this comment is just so offensive. How about you stop judging what the fuck others do with their own fucking bodies.
Syndella: About time someone said it!!
I am sick to my stomach with all this bull on my body!
I absolutely WILL NOT carry a baby to term if I don't want to! Why should I?
I will have an abortion if I choose to....and I certainly will not feel guilty about it!
I will do as I please with my own damn body!!
Several things:
1) Wanting a fetus doesn't give it any rights or YOU any rights or much control over whether or not you actually deliver a baby. People miscarry, fetuses die, they get seriously deformed, violence aganst you could result in the fetus's death. Your choice on pregnancy begins and ends with whether or not you will INTENTIONALLY do anything to terminate the pregnancy.
2) It is VERY possible for one to be against the idea of abortion and still be feminist so long as she or he does not plan on doing anything to prevent someone from choosing abortion OR childbirth. It is JUST as anti-choice to want to say when its ok for a woman to have an abortion as it is to say when its ok (or how many for either case) for her to have children.
3) Feminism does not end and begin with abortion. A victim of domestic violence who can't even get pregnant has nothing to gain from abortion rights she needs advocates for domestic violence. Are her advocates anti feminist because of their opposition to abortion? I'd say no. A victim of FGM, a woman who is infertile and needs help getting pregnant, a woman who wants higher pay, a woman being discriminated against because she has a vagina, transwomen are the answer to all of their problems abortion? If abortion was made free for all with no questions asked and protesting was punishable as a felony would it HELP any of these women? FUCK NO. Being a woman and the problems and discrimination we face isn't all about our status as fertile female with XX chromosomes. It's about us as HUMAN BEINGS with a complex array of issues and fights for equality and respect that abortion alone just doesn't even begin to tackle. It's a big piece of the puzzle but only a PIECE nonetheless.
If you are against the "idea" of abortion, meaning you would not have one yourself, but would not try to prevent someone else from choosing abortion, then you are PRO-CHOICE. The "pro-life" position aims to take abortion rights away from everyone. Pro-lifers want abortion to be illegal. So regardless of what you personally would do, either you are pro-life and want to prevent people from being able to exercise reproductive choice, or you are pro-choice and support people's right to choose pregnancy, childbirth, adoption, abortion etc. The pro-choice position doesn't push abortions on people or determine when a woman's allowed to have children, nor has anyone here suggested that there are circumstances when people should be able to do so, so I'm not sure how the hypothetical of "preventing women from choosing childbirth" is in any way relevant here.
So abortion rights will not solve every problem in our society. So what? Feminism is about giving women equality, and bodily autonomy. You cannot have equality without bodily autonomy. FGM, domestic violence, gender discrimination are all a part of that - they stem from the idea that women are other, lesser, and defined by having a uterus and not qualified for self-ownership because they have a uterus. The anti-choice position is just another symptom of the feeling that women's bodies are public property and women cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. And just going, "I think women should have equal pay" doesn't make someone a feminist if they're still going to work to deny women bodily autonomy. A person is not a feminist if they want to only allow women bodily autonomy when they think they should have it. Saying, "Oh, no one should be able to beat you, and no one should have the right to mutilate your genitals - but I should have the right to determine if you're going to endure a pregnancy, or not; and I have the right to make that decision that affects your health and body according to my own wants and mores, regardless of what you want and feel" is just choosing another form of violation, and another form of the same misogyny that makes beating women and mutilating their genitals seem permissable to some. It's all about exercising your will over another person's body, and if you are willing to do that you don't respect women or support their equality.
Also, just because one specific domestic violence victim can't get pregnant does not mean that abortion rights are not still a big issue for many victims of domestic violence, for whom pregnancy can increase the threat to their life or make it even harder to escape their abuser. So yeah, if someone supposedly against domestic violence still supported criminalizing abortion and thereby forcing any abused woman to bear her abuser's child against her will, I'd consider them antifeminist. Especially so since they've ostensibly seen what can happen to pregnant women in domestic violence situations and had a chance to open their minds the fact that the situation is more complicated than just, "Oh, if you have extreme physical health risks or were a raped Christian virgin you can be an exception; if not, just be pregnant and give it up for adoption and everything will be flowers and rainbows, so easy (and if you didn't want to be pregnant you shouldn't have had sex anyway, whore)!" Women aren't just human beings when you decide they are. Reproductive rights are inseparable from feminism.
RIGHT ON THIS ^^^^^^^^^ ALL THE WAY.