I'm always frustrated and saddened at victim-blaming, but it's especially disheartening to see it from a woman, on a woman's website, by an advice columnist.
There is so much wrong with the response that she gives to the first letter writer, and most of it has been detailed in the 8 pages of comments. But what is most frustrating to me is the blatant passive-aggression of Ms. Rosenfeld's response. She won't come right out and say that the letter writer is lying. She just hints at it with extremely condescending phrases ("Only you can know"). It reminds me nothing so much of media coverage of rape trials ("So you were drunk, and wearing revealing clothing? Hmm."). Regardless of whether this woman was sexually assaulted or not, she was still the victim of a crime, and a common one at that.
Almost more disturbing is Ms. Rosenfeld's response.
In yet another example of passive-aggression, Ms. Rosenfeld presents a non-apology; essentially "I'm sorry for those of you who were offended - clearly you didn't get it. But hey, at least I got a debate going!"
Aside from the victim-blaming, Ms. Rosenfeld's ideal of female friendship seems at best incredibly limiting and at worst indicative of every negative stereotype about female friendship - that we are catty and shallow, and that we spend most of our time talking about boys. It isn't any wonder, from someone who wrote a book called I'm So Happy For You, the title written with obvious sarcasm as the content is about jealousy between "best friends."
Obviously there are more important issues, and I think many on this site don't expect much from Double X anyway, but please take the time to make your voice heard anyway - someone who gives irresponsible, un-empathetic advice that peddles in the worst stereotypes of women should not have a column on website that purports itself to be for women.
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Good thing none of her friends murdered anyone on their drunken driving to the hospital.None of them should be driving while drunk. People; children, women, men have been KILLED by drunken drivers and no one in the comments section even considered that for two seconds you pretty much shamed people for not speeding while drunk??????? Seriously??? WTF!!??
One of her friends should have called a mutual sober friend and asked that person to come get her or her and the others to go to the hospital with the shaken and scared LW. LW should have been driven home as she was recently drunk and drugged. As much as LW would have liked her friends to be considerate and selfless while drunk and dead tired at 4am that's asking a lot considering most women are RAPED while drunk because they can't muster up resistance or sometimes simply judgement. Everyone was too hard on everyone in this and nobody thought clearly- understandly as everyone had clouded judgement.
What? Where was it stated that anyone was drunk or even drinking?
Also, to go to the hospital, even to get there quickly, does not necessitate driving. One can call a cab if one is drunk.
I think you're making too many assumptions about the letter-writer and her friends.
It's in the main letter go read it on doublex's website in Friend or Foe, they were ALL drunk/drinking at the club before any of them left that night.
And so you want 3 drunk young women to go call cabs or hail cabs at 4am to go to the hospital? They are still drunk. It's still 4am. If I was in a bind I'm not calling someone I KNOW to be drunk or who had been drinking to come help me. 1) My best friend could get into deep ish drinking and driving including killing someone, getting arrested for drinking and driving, getting a ticket or worse falling asleep at the wheel (it IS 4am and she's been drinking) and posibly killing herself. What began as a night of confusion and possible assault could end in certain death because 4 drunk sleepy women were summoned from their beds and into their cars to ALL come wait in a hospital with me.
It would have served the LW BETTER to have friends who were clear of mind and heart to come and be there for her (and also maybe better rested).
I've read the original letter four times. Unless the advertisement is blocking some of the letter, there isn't a single thing about drinking mentioned. She said they were at a live music venue and that she got up to go to the bathroom and didn't come back. Her friends assumed she'd left, so they left, too. If you could quote the part about drinking or being drunk from the original letter for me, I'd be satisfied, but I'm not seeing it. (Now I've read it again and still can't find the drinking you're referring to).
"most women are RAPED while drunk because they can't muster up resistance or sometimes simply judgement"
This may be the wrong place to start this up, but I have always wondered about this... I know a girl who used to sexually assault men (using force on unwilling people) when she was drunk. No one ever called her out (except calling her a crazy drunk since she was crazy when she was drunk), even taking into consideration she was violent and they resisted obviously.
She was always very sexual when drunk, and very not so when sober... But if she couldn't have mustered up enough judgement, would she be raped if she got a man to consent, since he had sex with her while she was wasted? Or what if she didn't get him to consent, and simply bullied him into it?
I'm just wondering. I am not knocking girls who get legitimately raped while drunk, but I am wondering about your (and many people's) inclusion of girls who don't have right judgement when they are drunk, because usually nobody does.
It was the wrong place to bring it up though I do understand your point. Men are capable of raping while drunk just as they are capable of being raped by drunk. Same with women.
Let me put it this way, typically a 12 year old can not consent to sex with anyone but it would not stop that 12 year old from raping someone either. A person under the influence of drugs or alcohol has clouded judgement- sometimes that clouded judgement puts them in a position to be a victimizer and most times it puts one in a position to be victims because others can take advantage of that state. Your friend should have been reported to the police long ago and check herself into rehab if she doesn't get jail time.
I hate this meme that female friends are only good for talking about boys and shopping. A good friend is a good friend, and if my "BFF" was in that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to rush and pick her up.
Not to mention my friends and I always try to keep track of where we are when we go to concerts or the like so that none of us get lost.
It's just basic sense and common decency.
I don't like this woman.
This is exactly what bugged me the most about it also. If we keep putting forth this message (I rarely see it done this explicitly) that romantic partners are the only people to whom we have an actual obligation, and that friends are only for, what-- company when we're bored?-- then how are we ever supposed to feel "complete" without a romantic partner? If my friend were slipped a fucking mickey (or if they were just black out drunk) I would happily (OK, not happily, but without hesitation or resentment), go to the ER to get them.
I just read that column, and I was seriously appalled at all parties involved (except the victim).
Me too. The victim definitely needs a new set of friends. As does that miserable advice lady if she thinks this sort of behavior is okay or to be expected from friends or whatever she thinks. I can't imagine me or my friends ever ignoring something like this.
I was happy to see that there was an outpouring of disagreement and anger in the comments to both the column and her non-apology. They (mostly) weren't vitriol, either, just many many people clearly and thoughtfully pointing out everything that was wrong with her answer.
What drove me crazy in both the column and the apology was the implication that no one would REALLY have gone to the hospital at 4 am.
I would have. If my friend that I had gone out with had called me from the hospital (or earlier, crying, from the club), I would have been there in a heartbeat, and feeling terrible that I hadn't taken her home before.
No, scratch that. I wouldn't have left the club without her to start with. I would have called her until I knew where she was before leaving. I've been abandoned by friends at clubs before, and it's not fun. No way would I leave a friend like that.
Ugh, this is so gross. If the columnist didn't believe the letter writer's story, she should have just said so. But not believing the letter writer is gross, too, because being an advice columnist in general means believing the people who write to you. The letters are the only information you've got, so if you question them, you've got nothing. Therefore, not believing this specific letter smacks to me of victim blaming - if she doesn't question all letters (and I don't see how she can) then why is she questioning this one? Maybe because she thinks it's the letter writer's fault she got drugged?
Also, the stated reasons for siding with the friends are kind of BS to me. How on earth is the letter writer no longer in danger once she wakes up and calls her friends? She was just drugged, presumably she's still out of it and therefore vulnerable. And if she hasn't been raped, that doesn't mean she hasn't been assaulted, because to my mind giving someone a substance that causes them to PASS OUT ON THE SIDEWALK counts as assault. And not knowing if you've been raped is pretty damn scary, I would guess. So I call BS on the idea that she was no longer in any danger, had no reason to be scared, and therefore did not need her friends. Like everyone else, I also call BS on the idea that no friend would have come to the hospital without complaint. Are her friends really that awful? Is she really that sucky of a friend? I would get up in a heartbeat for even my less-close friends, and if it was, say, my roommate? I can't imagine how scared I'd be for her. Friends can be like family. And a lot of times, people's friends are better than family. So total fail on that score, both for denigrating friendship, and for reiterating the whole ridiculous idea that family is somehow better because of blood.
The reasons the columnist gives for not believing the letter writer are BS, too, which is part of what makes me think maybe they stem from victim-blaming rather than legit skepticism. You can't think of any reason why the friends are mad, other than that this woman is a drama queen who's pulled this "stunt" before? Well, how about a combination of their stated unwillingness to get off their asses and help, plus guilt, plus being pissed off that the mother got in on the act, plus the early hour, plus fear that it could happen to them, plus (most importantly) their own victim-blaming?
More victim blaming: the idea that the letter writer's experience is comparable to the columnist's forays into INTENTIONAL drug use.
And everyone who says the whole "I'm sorry you're offended" apology bites is totally right.
Ugh, ugh, ugh. I can't even begin to describe how much hate I have for this columnist right now. Dear Friend or Foe, Are you a total asshole, or merely a complete douchebag? Only you know the truth. (sorry, that was a little strong. But her passive aggressive victim blaming when she uses the same sentence is so gross.)
Just to echo what has already been said here really.
But also.....my friends ARE may family. I feel more deeply for them than I ever could my parents (they abused me). So for me...my friends are my LIFE.
And I have lots of friends. But I also have a best male friend and a best female friend.
Both of these friends would be furious with me if I did not call them in the circumstances described.
An example: my best male friend, a few years back, got mugged. He was mugged to the point where he broke his arm and ended up in hospital. The night it happened - he didn't want to worry me....so he didn't call me until the morning.
And it hurt. It hurt like hell because there was I, sleeping peacefully when I could have been there, holding his hand.
It hurt because, for all I knew, he could have been killed by that horrible gang who hurt him. And I can only imagine that the vulnerability I felt, on knowing all this.....must have been a SMALL FRACTION of what he was feeling.
So this writer, clearly does not know what she is talking about. Romantic relationships can come and go....but my friends will be my family for life.
And they would be hurt, angry and feel betrayed if I did not call them if I was in trouble. It's a duty of love.
This makes me sick.