I know there are feminist fans out there like me, for whom this is their guilty pleasure.
Let's discuss the Twilight phenomenon critically. For example, take this Salon.com article titled Could 'New Moon' be a Feminist Triumph? , discussing the power of a female-droven market. Boobs sell, but half-naked hunks sell better!
Or, how this movie (in addition to its many faults) presents its female characters as more empowered than the first film? ie. Victoria, in the first movie, she's the underestimated sidekick hottie g/f, and in this film and the next book, she's their main adversary who proves resilient where older and male-r vampires have failed.
It's a complex phenomenon, that's neither entirely feminist or anti-feminist. So, discuss.
~Bex
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I see your point. I do! But I've read these books, and I'm sorry, they just ... they DO NOT ... well, Eclipse is the most sexist of the books, I'd say, but the other three books hardly strike me as bastions of feminist power, either.
Cleolinda has done better critiques of these books than I ever could, so I'll just shamelessly link her.
Her summary of New Moon:
http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/603861.html
Pertinent quote from New Moon (the book):
"I was like a lost moon--my planet destroyed in some cataclysmic, disaster-movie scenario of desolation--that continued, nevertheless, to circle in a tight little orbit around the empty space left behind, ignoring the laws of gravity."
Cleolinda says in response, "Wow, I sure want my theoretical daughter to think of herself as a satellite to a man."
THIS. This.
Also, more feminist analysis of the Twilight books (and by extension the films) can be found at this link:
http://fuckyeahtwilightsucks.tumblr.com/post/126772825/sexistbooks
That writer is a little less forgiving than Cleolinda, since Cleolinda at least sees the books as a guilty pleasure. Still lots of very good points, though.
Sorry to keep linking to things, but this article addresses your question more directly:
http://www.pajiba.com/seriously_random_lists/how-twilight-doesnt-signal-the-end-of-cultural-civilization.php
I don't necessarily agree with that guy and his (occasionally insulting) generalizations, BUT I thought this bit was interesting:
"1) There’s an incredible dearth of pop-culture products aimed at the young female audience, and 2) the New Kids on the Block and Titanic didn’t forever ruin pop culture or end the world, so there’s no reason to believe that Twilight will, either."
I took a look at the Salon article, and I do think it's great that a series geared towards women is so successful. Usually when Hollywood tries to play to women it's kinda painful to watch but this seems to have struck a chord. Since it was helmed by a female writer, director, and actor based off a book by a female author maybe this'll be a good indicator for the future.
Here's the thing though: it's a horrible series. Putting aside the sexist subtext, the books are just badly written and the films are badly made. Being a guy who sometimes let's his baser instincts get the better of him, I consider myself a "flawed feminist" and admit I'm not perfect in my standards or views (though I'm trying to improve). But even I'm appalled by "Twilight".
For the longest time I was mad exclusively at Edward Cullen for his stalking and emotional abuse. Considering she's nakedly an analogue for Stefanie Meyer herself though, I can't help but be mad at Bella, the main character (though don't think Edward's off the hook).
She never shows any ambition to anything resembling betterment and is frankly needy and selfish. She puts herself in danger never thinking about her safety or how it would affect her friends or family if she were injured or killed, and constantly lies to her parents. All because she was denied access to her boy toy, even when another boy toy was thrown at her. "Gee do I choose between the gorgeous vampire or the buff werewolf who both pledge eternal love to me? Life is hard!"
Actually, in her desire to become a vampire? I actually side with Edward a bit (and don't think that doesn't horrify me). He tells her over and over "seriously, I'm a vampire who has to kill things to live, you don't want this". But she keeps insisting on it because she doesn't want to grow old while her gorgeous boyfriend stays young. Great lesson for girls no? "Sure you'll spend eternity with an abusive emo pissant, but you'll always be young and hot!"
I'd love to see more media written by women that was genuinely FOR women, for their advancement in society as well as their entertainment ("Sex and the City" all I hear is the words of gay men). "Twilight" isn't it, and it's really disappointing.
"For the longest time I was mad exclusively at Edward Cullen for his stalking and emotional abuse. Considering she's nakedly an analogue for Stefanie Meyer herself though, I can't help but be mad at Bella, the main character (though don't think Edward's off the hook)."
I saw a clip of an interview with Meyer where she said something to the effect of, Twilight is a draw because it depicts real girls, not ones who are ready to roundhouse-kick any bad guy in the face. Apparently, in her world, there isn't much of a middle ground between Buffy-level magical ass-kicking and helpless little bunny rabbit. And I've been wishing horrible things on her career ever since (for all the good that's obviously done).
I was very pleased with the characterization of Bella. It's nice to read about a girl who has more realistic qualities.
Y'know, her magical ass-kicking aside, at least Buffy had a mind of her own. I can see why Stephanie Meyer wouldn't relate to that.
And there's a person on Buffy who would place bunny rabbits on the same end of the spectrum as the ass-kicking Slayer. :)
I've always been a bit torn about Twilight, as I did enjoy the books (except for Edward sneaking into her room. That was just creepy). It also resonated with me, because it mirrors in some ways how I feel in my own relationship--I'd probably feel lost without Jeff too, and I wouldn't be married now if I'd listened to my better instincts (Long distance relationship? Again? Still not sure why I agreed, though I'm glad I did). It also hit home after Venice, when Edward said he was no longer worried about losing control and hurting her, because I had a moment like that myself. So there were ways in which the books spoke to me personally. I still can't tell you why I like them though--I doubt I'll ever even read them again.
I think a large part of it is that Edward is so unambiguously a good guy (minus sneaking into her room, again). Who doesn't on some level yearn for a partner who would always protect them, look out for them, and dote on them the way Edward does? And I think the reader tends to give him a little leeway on the more iffy aspects of his character because he truly seems to have Bella's best interests at heart.
I haven't read the books, nor do I intend to, so correct me if I'm mistaken. But from what I've heard, some of the issues people have with Twilight stem from the fact that it's written for teenagers who are being shown this creepy murdering vampire stalker as an unambiguously good guy.
It's important to treat artistic work (to the extent this has any artistic value) on its merits without assuming certain outcomes will follow in the viewing public, but sometimes you get work like this where you know there are going to be people who take exactly the wrong lesson from the story. You don't fight to get it off the store shelves; you just end up shaking your head and saying, "No, no, this is going to have some bad effects." And as far as I've seen, there aren't many positives to counterbalance that besides "vampires are hot".
I wish people would trust young girls to be able to separate fantasy from reality.
But they keep making lists like this:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2227438513&ref=search&sid=912046.2791741185..1
And this (which isn't even written by a young girl, since she's married):
http://spousesofedwardcullenfans.blogspot.com/2008/04/you-know-youre-twi-hard-if.html
"- You get disappointed when he's not there to watch you sleep.
- You pretend he's there any way.
...
- You dream about having one wish and that one wish is that Twilight was reality and you were Edward's "mate"."
And so on.
I suppose you can tell me that they're just kidding or exaggerating, but the truth is told in laughter. I think a lot of women (young and old) DO see an ideal man in Edward. He is held up as the perfect boyfriend in the books -- that is not a fantasy, that is how he is presented within the story. I don't think that women of any age (or men) should look at Edward as a perfect mate. I think some women look at his controlling, overprotective behavior and believe that's how it is "supposed" to be, and that therefore it's what they want. But the relationship presented in the books isn't healthy (and I don't mean just because Edward is a vampire).
You mean "I wish people would trust young girls to [swim in pop culture without letting it influence their thinking in any way]."
Well, what's the fantasy? The vampires, the werewolves, the sparkly skin. What's not? Teen romance.
We (and by "we" I mean everyone, not just teen girls) learn so much about relationships and love through pop culture. We just do. You can't separate out what pop culture teaches us and what comes from outside it so easily. It's in the songs we listen to, the television shows where we're rooting for various 'ships, in the movies we watch - especially the ones marketed to women. If an author presents stalking and abuse as romantic and it's picked up by teens everywhere as a romance to swoon over, those ideas start trickling in to their minds about what relationships should be like.
We talk enough on this website about how pop culture influences feelings about gender roles and gender stereotypes, this isn't suddenly different because it has a vampire in it.
The best review I have read of the books is called, "Bite Me! (Or Don't)," and it appeared in _B*tch_ magazine:
http://bitchmagazine.org/article/bite-me-or-dont
Okay, I am a 15 yr. old girl who love twilight and Edward. There, I said it!!! I can see how it would be sexist, but still... This book does cater to the longing girls have for a boyfriend (Not saying all girls want that, but a lot do) and that is why it has become so successful. Edward is presented as a strong man who can protect Bella and a lot of girls do want that.
The real question is...can Hollywood make a movie for girls where romance isn't the main draw? (not that I have anything against romance, but I like variety).
I think part of the value of New Moon's success isn't just the 141 million figure (which, alone is staggering), but that the movie utterly crushed expectations for its box office draw. And I mean crushed. I guessed high on its weekend figures, and I was still off by tens of millions.
The last surprise of this magnitude was the first Spiderman film, and that triggered a wave of superhero movies that spans to this day. This could really mean more female-targeted books will get adapted to the screen.
At the end of the day money talks, and critiques of the content of the series aside I think it's always great to see women go to the theater in droves and flex some purchasing power.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and we won't see the movie industry change overnight, either. Wins like this are important. The third biggest opening of all time, in the history of movies, was driven by an overwhelmingly female audience.
Not the third biggest romance movie opening. Not the third biggest romantic comedy opening. The third biggest opening of all time. The biggest in terms of Friday tickets.
And in NOVEMBER. Not late June or early July.
So yes, Edward is controlling.
141 million dollars
Edward's also emotionally manipulative at times.
141 million dollars
Bella's not the ideal female role model.
141 million dollars
Anyone who thinks that this won't change the way execs look at the market share for females purchasing tickets is deluding themselves. This is a game-changer the likes of which will take years to assess the total impact.
So yeah, criticize content and so forth, but 141 million dollars say that there's a larger victory to be seen here.
Execs will see that women and girls will pay 141 million dollars to worship a controlling, emotionally manipulative studmuffin and a ragdoll heroine. I'm not sure that's a victory for the kind of movies you want to see produced.
You've got to walk before you run. Studios aren't just going to make big-budget films centered around strong feminist-positive themes overnight. This is part of a process in which the purchasing power of women in the box office gets recognized.
It ain't perfect, but the alternative is what, Transformers 3 or GI Joe 2? Please. New Moon demonstrated emphatically that women will go see a big action/romance centered around a female character. That's something you can build a scaffolding around.
I must say that the Twilight saga is indeed a guilty pleasure for myself. I really enjoy the fantasy genre which (with the exception of Tamora Pierce) is certainly not feminist I would say. I can't really say I can find anyway to look at Twilight as being feminist at all though. At the 12:00 showing I informed the crowd that Edward was a misogynist when a girl got up and asked who was team Edward. It didn't go over well haha
I fully agree that it is a terrible movie, lol. The point is to look at it critically for any redeeming factors.
For example, ignore Bella completely. What about the other women?
Alice is shown as independent, athletic, quirky, feminine, and intelligent, who knows her way around turbo cars and saves everyone in the end with her unique ability.
Even Rosalie, who is played up as the snobby beauty queen is an expert at tuning up engines. She shows some depth by staying true to her convictions about Bella's mortality even when they go against the majority of her family's.
And Victoria kicks some serious ass. I think she's the most representative of female figures, since she is so underestimated at the beginning and ends up the greatest rival in the end.
The film is not ideal, but hopefully producers will take the criticisms to mind and give us something more substantial next time. Either way, this proves that there is a significant female market out there that is not being catered to.
The idea that pre-marital sex is a one-way ticket into hell.
The idea its Edwards "job" to take care of Bella.
The idea Edward has to controll Bella by not letting her make her own "dangerous choices."
The idea that getting married and having kids at 18 is way better than going to college.
The idea that abortion is the wrong choice even if a woman's life is in danger. (Bella being pregnant by a half vampire that is going to kill her but refuses to even talk about the idea of abortion)
The idea that young girls around the country are eating this shit up.
Anti-feminist? Yes I think so.
"The idea that pre-marital sex is a one-way ticket into hell."
I honestly think that Edward is more worried about Bella's losing her soul once she becomes a vampire, and he isn't taking any chances with doing something else that might be potentially "bad" for her. And--based on when his character was actually born (early 20th century)--pre-marital sex WAS frowned upon. I think that considering pre-marital sex as NECESSARY to a good life, is just as bad as believing that only waiting until marriage will somehow make you a better person.
"The idea its Edwards 'job' to take care of Bella."
I happen to believe him. I also believe that it is HER job to take care of HIM. A relationship where neither partner is willing to make sacrifices or protect the other person...that's not healthy. Would you still be upset with this if the roles were reversed? It would still be a double standard.
"The idea Edward has to control Bella by not letting her make her own 'dangerous choices.'"
And yet we see her time and time again fight for what SHE wants--and she usually wins, by hook or by crook. Edward wants her to have an abortion, but what does she do? She refuses. Seems like his ability to control her is rather weak.
"The idea that getting married and having kids at 18 is way better than going to college."
Pulling this card is unfair. For some women, this IS what they want. I was always under the impression that feminism was about choice--if a woman wants to get married and have kids, what's wrong with that? Besides, it's not like Bella will miss out on any education or opportunities, as she now has unlimited time and (seemingly) unlimited money.
"The idea that abortion is the wrong choice even if a woman's life is in danger. (Bella being pregnant by a half vampire that is going to kill her but refuses to even talk about the idea of abortion)"
Again, her body, her choice. Just as you shouldn't refuse a woman an abortion, you shouldn't force her to have one either.
"The idea that young girls around the country are eating this shit up."
Young girls eat this crap up because it's a story. It's romantic, it's magical. People are attracted to that because it's so completely not what real life is like. It's up to young people (and their parents) to discuss things like this, and find out what they believe for themselves.
"Anti-feminist? Yes I think so."
Depends on who you're talking to.
This all goes back to an earlier post, the one about a person's being a "good" or "bad" feminist. I'll say what I said before: it's about CHOICE. And maybe you disagree with Bella's choices, but they ARE hers, and it's not fair to judge her and call her creator some sort of horrible person simply because she's created her characters a certain way.
Also--and I hate to bring it up, because I know it might cause some strife--Stephanie Meyer is Mormon, which may have something to do with the "old-fashioned" (or, according to some people here, anti-feminist and stupid) morals of some of the characters.
I've seen your points raised by a friend of mine who loves the books, and since I haven't read them, I can't offer a counter-point. But I can take on one thing you said.
"Young girls eat this crap up because it's a story. It's romantic, it's magical. People are attracted to that because it's so completely not what real life is like. It's up to young people (and their parents) to discuss things like this, and find out what they believe for themselves."
The problem I have with this is that as a society we tend to be pretty media-illiterate. There is no such thing as "just a story", everything on TV, in movies and books, even in songs, have messages and projects or "agendas". That in and of itself isn't a problem, what's troubling is that a lot of the time, these messages can have an impact but the audience isn't necessarily aware of it, especially when that audience is younger. Teenagers and pre-teens don't have the life experience to contextualize messages like these, and at that age we're learning socially-acceptable behavior in terms of inter-personal relationships. More and more we're learning them from media sources, and when something is as wildly popular as the Twilight series in that demographic, you can bet money a lot of these girls are taking these messages to heart. At that point it isn't a choice because they're just swallowing what they're being fed-- we don't question the messages in media because most media isn't interactive, and the successful films, book, programs, etc., are designed to work on the audience to turn them into the viewers that will enjoy the product. They're persuasive.
I'm not saying someone can't enjoy the series, I certainly have a list of guilty pleasures, as does just about everyone else I know. The problem lies in understanding a) that it's a guilty pleasure, and b) why it's a guilty one. I'm also saying this as someone who recognizes this issue in herself. There were a lot of things I picked up as a kid and young adult that, as it turns out, were not practical or healthy to think in real life, and am still trying to undo lots of it at the age of 31. For me it isn't just some statistic from a textbook, it's reality because it happened to me.
Seeing New Moon was one of my favorite theatre-going experiences. I tried not to laugh too loud for the sake of the audience but there was this one scene where Alice is relaying her vision of Bella transforming into a vampire to Michael Sheen and they show a clip of Bella and Edward frolicking through a meadow wearing khakis. I nearly fell out of my chair.
What I found truly ironic is this scene where Jacob is explaining to Bella that his transformation into a wolf is "Not [his] choice, [he] was born this way." Isn't Stephanie Meyer a mormon? I wonder if she paused in the middle of this sentence and was like, "whoa, whoa, whoa ... none of this gay business!" I guess it's okay for mythical creatures to use this defense.
lmao, definitely. Ditto for when he mentions its not a "lifestyle", is who he is
Reading the comments here I'm reminded of some intergenerational issues that came up at the Omega conference in September.
Just because young women don't arrive at their understanding of the world they way you or I would doesn't make their choices and preferences less valid. Give them some credit! We understand our world and our generations issues a lot better than you think.
My younger sisters are 14 and 16yrs old. They often roll their eyes when I start critiquing pop culture, but on this one they agree completely that Bella is lame. Their favourite character? Alice. They may not be hardcore feminists (yet), but they are empowering themselves in their own ways with their own choices.
I'm 22 and I enjoy the series for its entertainment value and as something to share and bond with my sisters, as well as an opportunity to critique it. For example, I wrote a paper for my Feminist Theory class on a culural feminist analysis of the Twilight series. Here's the conclusion:
"Twilight is not necessarily feminist or anti-feminist. More accurately, it is a depiction of women living in a society mixed between progressive empowerment and traditional mores, just like ours. We do not live in a feminist utopia where equality is automatic, and many women’s realities reflect this. It is a reflection of the fact that while we have come a long way from the strict oppression of women in the past, there are still some major challenges for feminism to overcome. The difference is that now these challenges are more nuanced, involving the complexities of women’s diverse and multifaceted wills, aims, desires and choices."