[Cross-posted at Femocracy.net ]
I’ve been thinking about this question a lot lately, especially after reading this post about how two men raped a woman while she was dying. See, the woman drank a lot, and passed out – so the two men she was with decided to carry her to the basement, lie her down and rape her. Except the newspaper that reported on it described it as “they had sex with her while she passed in and out of consciousness.” Now, if you’re a feminist who reads about rape culture, this statement can be jarring. It’s sort of like how a news story can read something like “A husband stabbed his wife 32 times over a lover’s quarrel gone wrong.” It’s become normalized that the media describes domestic violence that results in death this way, but if you’re aware of the issues, I’m sure your sensors go off and you say to yourself, “It wasn’t a lover’s quarrel – those don’t end with getting stabbed 32 times. This is an utter dismissal of violence.”
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Had I been able to re-write a passage of what I wrote on my Community post, I would have changed it to reflect that “the worst fear of many women is to be cheated on”. The subtle sexism was not present, rather it was indicative of too heavily a reliance on anecdotal sources that might not be present for every woman.
That being said, I think without true equality both in the workplace and in every activist cause, an even-handed perspective will be lacking.
As a reporter who is not an editor, I can testify to the fact that your articles will, in fact, get rewritten or revised if they seem “biased”. What the editors really mean, without always saying so, is that your “bias” is the wrong kinds, aka not the same as theirs. And so goes the written modern history of our world.
“Meanwhile, not addressing that it might be a guy’s worst nightmare to be falsely accused of rape, but in my mind at least, it doesn’t match a worst nightmare of actually getting raped.”
Um, yes it does. Poll a few non-feminist males and ask them which they would rather endure:
1) A false rape conviction. This carries a five-year prison sentence, and sex offender registration that will keep you out of any decent job for the remainder of your life. Your friends will abandon you, and no woman will want to date you when they find out about your “crime”.
2) Anal rape from a creepy gay dude. Carries a few minutes discomfort.
Are you really saying #2 is worse than #1? Really??
The media doesn’t necessarily get rape so wrong. There are times when a man or women can be wrongfully accused of rape for unspiteful reasons and still have their name and reputation permanently damaged by the accusation. So saying someone was “having sex with someone” could be just as accurate as “raping a person who was drunk” depending on whether or not they were proven guilty. Just because the media is giving the accused the benefit of a doubt (innocent until proven guilty) doesn’s mean theyre being easy on or biased towards anyone.
This is more than likely due to the fact that men, apart from those who actually do go to prison, never have and never will deal with rape as a realistic threat. Men do not fear rape because they do not have to. They consider the false rape charge the super scariest thing on earth not because they think it is worse than being raped, but because they have no reason to be able to fathom what rape is like, or that they ever would be raped.
And considering that 1 in 6 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime, and something like 60% of rapes are never reported, and that of those 40% that are reported, only about 2% are false, it seems like the chances of a woman being raped are far greater than the chances of a man being falsely accused of rape.
So yea, I’d say that rape is worse.
I don’t think that you have ANY right to insinuate that rape only leaves a few minutes of discomfort and nothing else, how dare you. While both may be bad, number one DOES NOT COMPARE to being stripped of all rights to one’s physical, emotional, and psychological being and being made to feel like nothing but an object, and a useless object at that. And what about all the psychological trauma afterward? The intimacy issues? The depression? The sense of guilt instilled by the victim to themselves, and by society in general? All that does not matter though, right?
Are you really saying #2 is worse than #1? Really??
W.T.F.
I cannot even begin to count the ways in which this comment are offensive.
Aren’t you just as guilty of distorting the issue as the media you attack? In your first paragraph you mention the shocking case of a dying women who is raped by two men which the media reports as “they had sex with her while she passed in and out of consciousness.” Only in paragraph three do you mention that there could be a legal issue. That the publication in question may fear being in contempt of court, libel or prejudicing a trial. Of course that would undermine your central thesis of bad media underplays rape.
As for reporting of false accusations of rape. Well could this not be a case of man bites dog. The rarer story gets more coverage? Do you have any objective evidence to back up your assertion that news rooms give disproportionate coverage to false rape accusers? Are newspapers allowed to report such cases in your view?
You also mention the advice women are given about how to be safe on a night out. Now I agree with you that much of this Neanderthal. Anyone who believes that the length of a women’s skirt means that she is asking to be rape needs physiological help. However you have also lumped in what I would consider to be perfectly sensible advice. Such as don’t drink too much, go out with a friend, be careful which taxi firm you use. As a student I was told not to display valuables on the street late at night, certain areas to avoid. That didn’t mean University thought it would be OK if I got mugged if I ignored their advice. It was just sensible precautions to take.
As for the teach men not to rape comment, I find that offensive. I shouldn’t have to say this, I have never raped a women, but somehow because I have the same chromosome as those that do I need to go to some re-education camp. Men also commit armed robberies and sell drugs. Should I go on courses to stop me doing that as well?
As for you comment about journalists learning the job as they go along; good. Do we really want some body saying that such and such can write, but your views don’t chime with feminist orthodoxy, so your censored? I don’t want our journalists vetted before they can produce a story or a comment piece. There to be a black list of journalists who don’t write in a way you approve, or feminists vetting the output of newspapers.
Seriously?
The poster said “false rape accusation, not conviction. A false rape accusation will not land you in jail or obliterate your chances of a job, or women in the future, nor will it make your friends abandon you. As demonstrated by the incredible amount of defense and support accused rapist’s receive from bigoted pundits in the media as well as every day people (anecdotal, but sufficiently widespread in my experience), I’d say the opposite is true in a lot of cases. People rally to support any accused rapist who is A, famous, B, prominent in his community, or C, a dude without a record of any kind who could very well be a rapist, but probably isn’t, just cuz there are apparently “sooo many” false rape reports (so MRAs would have you all believe)
And you grossly downplay option 2 in a way that evidences your abject inability to comprehend the trauma of rape. Sorry, it is NOT a few minutes of discomfort. It’s devastating, it is destructive and cruel, and a man would not just shrug it off, as he might shrug off losing a few associates who don’t want to be seen as knowing an accused rapist.
If you presented this as a poll to non-feminist men exactly as you’ve framed it, yeah, they would probably just as ignorantly say that number one looks really awful and number 2 not that bad, but this just goes to show how heavily biased your survey would be. I won’t describe a more accurate account of rape for you, but I do suggest you reexamine your insensitive and belittling perspective of the crime.
I’m just wondering if you’re saying #2 there as if from your non-feminist male’s point of view, because I’m pretty sure all of us around here know that rape, of any form and perpetrated by anyone, is far, far more than a few minutes of discomfort
I think this is really dismissive of the emotional and psychological (and physical) pain that rape can inflict upon a person. Note that I’m not saying a false rape accusation isn’t damaging and doesn’t cause a lot of pain. But to minimize rape to a few minutes of discomfort is pretty shitty. Getting a cavity filled is a few minutes of discomfort. For many people, rape is an extremely traumatic experiences and they feel the effects of it in many ways long after it’s over.
I also find it problematic that you describe the theoretical rapist as a “creepy gay dude.” I’ll give you creepy, though not everyone who commits rape gives off a creepy or intimidating vibe. But you can’t assume that any man who assaults another man is necessarily gay or that a man cannot be assaulted by a woman.
What an ignorant comment. Your characterization of these two possible scenarios uses biased language to put it lightly.
Everything you write about in #1 depends upon a conviction, which is unlikely in any event and even more unlikely when the accused is innocent. Secondly, many women DO date men who have been accused of rape, even men who actually have raped. Whether or not they should, them’s the facts.
As for #2, rape of any kind, including anal rape, has the possibility to cause serious physical damage that takes far more than a few minutes to heal. And you completely left out the psychological scarring, which can cause depression, fear around members of the sex who perpetrated the act, and difficulty being vulnerable/trusting in future intimate relationships. The psychological effects often go on for years, though everyone heals at their own pace.
Have you really been allowed to comment here? There is so much wrong in your statements that I don’t know where to begin.
Let’s start by the fact that male-on-male rape is rarely committed by gay men. As rape is about power instead of sex, a rapist can have any sexual orientation and still rape men/women/intersexed.
And, shit, I didn’t realize rape was all about the physical discomfort. I mean, golly, if all I had to worry about was how my vagina and ass felt after someone forcefully penetrated me, what have I been afraid of all this time? I mean, where do people even get off saying they were unhappy to be molested?
Just…just go. Go read some Feminism 101, and maybe you can come back here.
And the effects last for longer than a prison sentence.
Rape destroys lives.
But it is biased. Calling the person “accused of rape” is protecting their right to be perceived as innocent until proven guilty, but not calling into question the rape itself.
Calling rape ‘sex’ is biased towards the rapist. I don’t know why you can’t see that.
I don’t think anyone would say that men accused of rape should be labelled a rapist before a trial, but the crime of rape should not be labelled ‘sex’, just like the crime of theft should not be labelled ‘borrowing’.
“They consider the false rape charge the super scariest thing on earth not because they think it is worse than being raped, but because they have no reason to be able to fathom what rape is like, or that they ever would be raped.”
You could just as well say that since women have no reason to fear a false rape charge, they don’t understand why it’s so much worse than being raped.
The poster said “false rape accusation, not conviction.
If you want to argue semantics, then yes: A man’s worst nightmare is a false rape conviction, not a false rape accusation.
Presumably, Femocracy was criticizing non-feminist males. My point was that even if Femocracy disagrees with non-feminist males, they are at least consistant in their reasoning.
“I also find it problematic that you describe the theoretical rapist as a “creepy gay dude.” I’ll give you creepy, though not everyone who commits rape gives off a creepy or intimidating vibe. But you can’t assume that any man who assaults another man is necessarily gay or that a man cannot be assaulted by a woman.”
You’re absolutely right.
Unfortunately, many people wrongly believe that 1) a woman cannot rape a man and 2) if a woman did rape a man, he would enjoy it. So to sidestep this objection, I presumed a gay male. I didn’t mean to say women never rape men.
This is down as a reply to gwye, but it’s more of a reply to eveyone.
A false accusation can cost you your home, job, family, and life WITHOUT a conviction.
You think that while you’re on remand the bank just lets a few months mortgage payment slide? When you’re unable to show up for work how many bosses will hold onto the job for you? Who wants to employ some guy who may be a rapist? You think you’ll be able to get a new job? Not when an employer sees what comes up when they google your name. Will your friends stand by you? Or will they “believe the woman”? Your family? What if your accuser is a family member, or your wife or girlfriend? If the false accusation has been brought about to bring advantage in a divorse do you think you’ll be seeing your kids anytime soon? “Your honor, my client had a restraining order agianst her husband who is currently awaiting trial for rape….” Nope you will not. Then a later when you’ve been cleared. “Your honor, he hasn’t seen the children in over a year, surely you can see that reintroducing them to their lives now would not be in his best interests. Also he hasn’t been paying child support, has no job and lacks suitable accomodation……”
As for losing your life, if some nut job vigilante doesn’t get you in prison or on the streets then you may have been through all of the above and still not know whether you’re going to go to prison. What’s left to live for?
How about actually listening to the falsely accused before talking about how its not that bad? You don’t have to be convicted to loose it all.
As for the teach men not to rape comment, I find that offensive. I shouldn’t have to say this, I have never raped a women, but somehow because I have the same chromosome as those that do I need to go to some re-education camp.
Nobody suggested any such thing, that’s an unnecessarily inflammatory comment. How do you propose we combat rape? The only way that I see to make difference is to try to stop rapists from evolving into rapists, because “prevent rape” tips that target women end up being victim-blaming and pretty useless – yes, you can not wear revealing clothing and not walk around by yourself at night and not drink at a party, but my friend was wearing jeans and a sweater when was raped in her dorm room, so none of that would have helped her.
But the media frequently use “having sex with” in cases where it’s clear that consent could not have been obtained, like instances where the victim is a passed out women or a young girl. Cara at The Curvature posts on this pretty often, if you’re interested in seeing some examples.
For. the. last. time. Rape is NOT the same as robbery.
There isn’t nearly a culture of mugging and robbery out there to equate the rape culture we live with every day.
The reason men need to be taught not to rape is precisely because of the rape culture in which we live – and which, in fact, condemns muggings more than it condemns men violating women.
Your comment only serves to illustrate the point that yes, reeducation is needed.
The first reason rape is downplayed is purely legal… editors always opt for the safer language that will legally protect them.
I’m going to have to quibble with this. Journalism practice and journalism ethics 101 are loud and clear that you never say anything but “alleged [whatever]” for any crime from jaywalking to serial murder until there’s a conviction. And after that, it’s usually, “John/Jane Doe, who was convicted of X charge in Y year.” It is a reporter’s job, after all, to report the facts (evidence offered, charges brought, analysis offered, rulings and verdicts), not to do the job of judge and jury. It’s not just a matter of not getting sued. And if any party quoted has described a suspect/defendant as having committed rape, the headline issue is a matter of outright quotation, not “scare quotes.”
“Carries a few minutes discomfort.”
A few minutes of discomfort?!?! That’s it? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU. As a rape survivor I’m appalled by your comment and belittlement of the effects of rape on a person.
Actually, “alleged” isn’t good enough either, at least not for any outlet that follows Associated Press style. So basically any outlet. Good news practice is to stick to the literal facts: charged with X crime, convicted, etc. “Alleged” is not good enough.
OK, so while I agree that the media gets rape wrong, I disagree with much of your post. My background isn’t in tabloids, maybe they do things differently, but:
* The Bill of Rights states that people are innocent until proven guilty. This is the entire foundation of our legal system, and we CANNOT hedge on it, rape case or no rape case. The slippery slope is a fallacy, but in this case it applies: if we start playing fast and loose here (oh, he MUST be a rapist, it’s obvious), what’s to stop us from playing fast and loose elsewhere?
* Thus, any editor who would write “‘Rapist’ appears in court” understands neither libel law nor the Bill of Rights and deserves to lose his or her job. Period. Think of it as tantamount to murder. A witness can claim that somebody shot someone, but that person cannot legally be considered a murderer until he or she is convicted.
* Where bias can, and does, sneak in is in the culture of the place. So many stories get pitched as “OK, go cover these wacky protesters again and maybe we can get a nice comments thread going.”
* But the “Newsrooms are so fast-paced that it’s a man’s world!” thing seems very, very essentialist. Women can handle fast-paced newsrooms. They work for wire services and break news, and somehow their pesky femininity manages not to slow things down.
All of you are misinterpreting this comment. The “few minutes discomfort” is clearly meant to indicate the feelings OF THE DUDEBRO IMAGINING THIS.
That said, that’s still pretty vile.
Are you just playing devil’s advocate are do you actually think that being falsely accused of rape is much worse than actually being raped? Because while I have no doubt that being falsely accused is horrible and will not try to downplay that at all, I could not for one second pretend or try and argue that it is at all comparable to actually being physically raped.
It isn’t worse than being raped, so no, you couldn’t just as easily say that. Any reasonable unbiased person would see that a breach of a person’s autonomy through physical violence and force, verbal coercion and threat is worse than someone pointing a finger at a man and accusing him of committing rape. It’s not a strictly physical crime, the emotional impact of being humiliated and demeaned through rape is incredibly significant. Why do you think it’s so rampantly used during warfare? It destroys morale. It rips away the victim’s personhood and self-ownership, it’s an act that degrades them to a level that is less than human. A human being like an accused rapist still has possession of his or her body and can make choices for that body that are respected.
Being falsely accused of rape is awful, and it is damaging, but compare losing one’s reputation, having to sit through a trial in which the innocent man is acquitted due to lack of evidence (Really, if Australia will acquit a rapist on the grounds that the victim was wearing skinny jeans, it’s not a far stretch to suggest that a completely innocent man will likely not be convicted of a crime there’s no proof of him ever committing) – Compare that to being psychologically and physically tortured by the crime of rape.
And really, you should display more sensitivity. There are rape survivors here, and your blatant dismissal and belittling of their pain has been a hurtful reminder that some people just don’t care about what happens to women- Some people think a little bit of litigation is worse than having your body used and tossed aside like garbage.
You need to wake up.
I’ve always understood the point of this analogy not as that rape and robbery are the same, but as having to do with the chances of being targeted by a criminal (who knows the rules perfectly well but chooses not to obey them). It seems to acknowledge (without excluding that educational/social/cultural shifts toward prevention could be very helpful) that there will always be some bad-willed, violent people who, given the opportunity to commit a crime, will take it. Leaving your house door unlocked makes it easier for any criminal to gain access – thief, rapist, or murderer. A person alone at night in unfamiliar area is an easier mark for any criminal – mugger, rapist, random assailant. And so on. I don’t think it necessarily diminishes the seriousness of sexual assault to acknowledge that, on a practical level, it can occur as a crime of opportunity. And while robbery or even necessarily “simple” assault are in the same category of harm as sexual assault, they’re certainly not good, nor without traumatic effects on the victim.
Although you have a point. You’re not entirely getting mine.
The very idea of “innocent until proven guilty” can mean more than just “they cant throw u in jail until they can prove you did something wrong” it also means “we should try and protect your image because its unfair if you proven to be innocent and it still goes under”. What I mean by that is that we should all try to protect their reputation in case their proven innocent so that they can get back to their normal lives, unhindered. And if words like “accused rapist” have terrible stigmas attached to them (which they do nowadays, anyone whos giving money to that football player who was recently accused of it is whatching his case VERY closely) then going out of ones way to protect them from that stigma is fair. Maybe biased (I admit yes), but the very idea of IUPG means that we should be. If our society is prejudice against accused rapist, which they are, one cant blame the media for protecting them from that judgment. Blame society for being judgmental and be active to change that shit.
As for the prosecutors and people involved in the case, they should be pure justice.
There are already efforts to stop rapist from evolving into rapist. Its called going to jail for commiting rape and being called a rapist. This society already puts the crime of rape on a pedestal enough. One could say that its unjust to say that the desire of seeing someone humiliated and defeated (rape) is more evil that the desire to ruin another’s livelihood for the sake of your own (theft) or to feel that its necessary to end anothers life completely (murder). I dont mean to be harsh, but just because rape is something that mostly turns out to be something that men do to women doesn’t mean that every man should be forced to learn restraint to such a degree that u suggest.
And we all understand that if you follow the guidelines to not get raped and they fail, its not your fault. But its also not the responsibility of the government or society you live in to infringe upon anothers freedom to improve your safety when that specific person has done nothing wrong to begin with.
Dont forget that one of the ideals of this country was to value fairness over safety. Give me liberty or give me death.
Oh god, I sound like some super duper right wing conservative republican.
I like NOFX!
“A few minutes discomfort”? First of all if it’s a few minutes then it’s the longest most excruciating “few minutes” of your life followed by a lifetime of flashbacks and nightmares that can be too much for some people to handle which is why rape survivors are four times more likely to commit suicide then people who have never been raped. As a rape survivor, I find this comment so F**king offensive.
The fact that you seem to think that rape is just “a few minutes of discomfort” is downright appalling. A prison sentence is only a few years long, and I would GLADLY take it in exchange for the years of flashbacks, nightmares, rage, shame and loss of self that is the aftermath of rape.
Think before you speak.
I honestly don’t agree with this.
I know rape survivors who are perfectly fine. They lead normal lives. They have jobs, are married, etc.
How many people publically accused of rape can say this? Their lives are ruined.
Different rapes affect different people differently. So I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about what is worse. But I think it’s highly offensive to suggest that rape is OBVIOUSLY worse. I don’t agree that it is. I know it’s a sin to say that on a feminist forum but it’s simply how I feel.
“The reason men need to be taught not to rape is precisely because of the rape culture in which we live – and which, in fact, condemns muggings more than it condemns men violating women.”
What on earth are you going on about? How exactly do you propose to teach men not to rape. Are we to have classes at schools with men being told how evil they are. It is this kind of non-sense which is giving feminism a bad name. As for
“For. the. last. time. Rape is NOT the same as robbery.
There isn’t nearly a culture of mugging and robbery out there to equate the rape culture we live with every day.”
Your clearly missing the point of my post. It was not meant to equate rape with robbery (though I didn’t know there was some chart on which we can rate the seriousness of crimes). It was simply to point out that nobody has any problem with advice to reduce the chances of being robbed, but anyone who dares offer such advice about rape is a closet supporter of rapists. I fail to see how advising women to be careful who they take drinks from, to go out with friends, and know which taxi firms are safe to use is so bad. This isn’t the same as saying that a women was asking to be raped by her behaviour or clothing. It is in fact empowering women by giving them the facts, telling them honestly about the risks, and letting them make up their own minds.
Neither do I think your comments about a rape culture are very helpful. Now I don’t know the level sexual assaults in America ( I’m from the UK), and if anyone has some objective statistics I would be interested. However a culture of rape makes it sound like women are taking their lives in their hands every time they open their door. Creating a climate of fear is just as damaging to the freedoms that feminism has won, as anything the anti-feminists have ever done. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t take the issue of rape seriously, but I certainly don’t want women afraid to live their lives.
But, again, rape is a specific legal charge, and reporting on it is in that context. Most cases are still legally ambiguous as they’re reported. For example, the prosecution and defense may disagree as to whether a complainant was too inebriated to be legally capable of giving consent (there’s not a simple dichotomy in most jurisdictions). Or if the complainant is underage, there may be an issue over whether it’s statutory AND forcable rape or only statutory rape or is being prosecuted as something like sexual assault or taking indecent liberties with a minor (not the same charge as rape). But underlying all these is whether the person accused is the responsible party, and whether police can charge a suspect or prosecutors can obtain an indictment and win a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.
“Perfectly fine” is incompatible with surviving rape. Yes, women generally do not lay down and die when they’ve been attacked and traumatized by crimes of any kind, but they are permanently changed.
Men accused of rape also undergo huge changes, I’m sure. Their faith in the system and in certain people [or women overall] is shaken, but that exact same thing happens to rape victims, in addition to having been physically raped.
So, you can disagree, but as I see it that’s only evidence of faulty morals. A man doesn’t get manhandled in court, or have his clothes ripped off and his body forcibly penetrated in any way, and if he is innocent he’s likely to walk and recover from the allegations without this hyperbolic collapse of his life that you and others are suggesting is all too common. How many big names get accused of rape, and still after those charges are dropped or fall through, they have the support they once had? Kobe Bryant still rich and famous? Yeah.
“Different rapes affect different people differently.”
Different accusations of rape affect different people differently. Some of those accusations are recanted after a day before an investigation even starts, and the man experiences nothing other than a minor disturbance and a loss of trust in that one individual. At the very least, a rape victim is grossly humiliated and justifiably afraid for her life, and at worst she can live the rest of her life looking over her shoulder, never trusting again, and always feeling that at any moment her control over her own body will be revoked, and she’ll again be hurt and humiliated by someone else.
So I will continue making this blanket statement: Rape is worse than being accused of rape.
PZ, so your argument is that any criminal should not be named in a news report?
So a burglary or car theft report would see the name of the alleged or accused thief suppressed in case their reputation is soiled. Or a high profile banker accused of fraud should have their name suppressed as well, it could really ruin their reputation after all, even if they aren’t convicted. That seems like a rather odd idea of justice, it seems almost like you would suppress freedom of the media
Our justice system works in that people are innocent of a crime until proven guilty, NOT that they are innocent of being accused of a crime. If there is sufficient evidence for charges to be laid and a court process begun then yes there are social consequences for those accused of burglary, theft, murder, rape etc… One way we deal with this is by calling them an *alleged* thief, murderer, rapist etc….
What you are proposing is that for a particular crime (rape) we should change the rules, that’s not merely a bias, it’s just plain wrong.
“Dont forget that one of the ideals of this country was to value fairness over safety. Give me liberty or give me death.”
PZ, fairness is not liberty, freedom is. And women deserve the freedom to live free from the threat of male violence. Women should not have to follow the ‘rules to not get raped’, bodily autonomy is a right.
At any rate a public education campaign regarding rape isn’t quite the infringement upon freedom that you seem to imagine. Or do you oppose all public information on the grounds of “liberty or death”?
How about actually listening to the falsely accused before talking about how its not that bad?
Most, if not all, of the commenters objecting to this comment are not saying that it isn’t terrible to go through a false rape accusation. They’re saying that it minimizes the suffering of many victim/survivors of rape and is an inapt comparison.
There are already efforts to stop rapist from evolving into rapist. Its called going to jail for commiting rape and being called a rapist.
Do we have any reliable statistics on the number of people punished each year for rape and the number of cases prosecuting rape? (Of course that would still leave out all the rapes that occur that are not brought to the attention of the law.) I’m skeptical that rapists being put in prison has a deterring effect, especially when many people don’t even conceive of certain things AS rape, like date rape.
just because rape is something that mostly turns out to be something that men do to women doesn’t mean that every man should be forced to learn restraint to such a degree that u suggest
I’m not suggesting any certain “degree” of teaching, and I’m not talking about restraining men in any way. I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to teach everyone that if someone doesn’t want to have sex with you? Don’t touch them.
Really reinforcing the importance of consent in all different levels of sex education classrooms may be a start.
The kind of “teaching” I was thinking of is a much more general changing of cultural attitudes of objectification of entitlement to other people’s bodies. Of course feminists have been working on this for a while and rape has been and continues to be a serious problem, and it’s hard to say how to go about incorporating those ideals into the culture.
Nobody is ever proven “innocent”. It’s “not guilty”. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Often (especially with rape cases) it just means there isn’t enough evidence to convict. The law recognizes that they don’t convict every guilty person.
“Accused rapist” is a factual statement, stigma or no. “Sex” has connotations of mutual consent, which presumes that the victim is lying.
There are already efforts to stop rapist from evolving into rapist. Its called going to jail for commiting rape and being called a rapist.
Too bad that only 1/10 rapists, by a generous estimate, actually end up in prison. It also kind of sucks that jail time is an ineffective deterrent.
I dont mean to be harsh, but just because rape is something that mostly turns out to be something that men do to women doesn’t mean that every man should be forced to learn restraint to such a degree that u suggest.
And why not? You’ve said that this is true but you don’t offer any reason. If men are terrified of being accused of rape, you’d think they’d want to know how to avoid raping people. That would minimize their chances of being accused of rape and allow them to know where they stand. Learning not to rape isn’t really a difficult task, either. It wouldn’t have to be nearly as in-depth as, say, learning to drive, which, like sex, is something people don’t usually need to live but is still thought of as a necessity. (Just because car accidents are one of the top causes of death doesn’t mean everyone should be forced to learn restraint to such a degree!) How is it reasonable to expect women to memorize tomes of contradictory, ineffective, oppressively-strict rape avoidance advice, but not reasonable to expect everyone, including men, to memorize a complete set of 100% effective rape avoidance advice that would fit on a single sheet of paper? Look, here it is:
* Don’t engage in “sex” acts with other people without consent. That includes hands-holding and everything else.
* Consent is not the default state. Look for verbal consent or enthusiastic participation.
* You are never ‘owed’ consent. Don’t attempt to pressure, threaten, wheedle, or attack people who don’t freely offer consent.
* Consent is not binary. People can consent to one sex act without necessarily consenting to another. Also, people can consent to do a sex act with one person without consenting to do it with another.
* Consent can be withdrawn at any time. If someone has withdrawn consent, stop immediately. Withdrawal of consent can be verbal, but there are also non-verbal signals, such as pushing you away, attempting to leave, moving your hands/other part, etc.
* Sometimes people are incapable of consent. If you suspect that someone may be unconscious, unaware of reality, below the legal age of consent, or a non-human animal, stop. If you are in a position of power over that someone and it is reasonable to believe that this is affecting their decision, stop.
* If you are receiving mixed signals, or aren’t sure whether someone is consenting, stop and ask for clarification.
* Remember, it’s better to miss a chance at getting laid than to be a rapist. Have fun!
This solution would not only be more effective, it’s actually more fair, since it distributes the work of rape prevention evenly, instead of expecting women to shoulder more than their fair share.
I lead a “normal” life, as you call it. No one looking at the way I life would assume I was raped 9 years ago. But emotionally I’m still dealing with the effects of that rape every single day. And it has effected my “normal” life in ways no one would even pick up on unless they had an in depth conversation with me about it and I told them how. This is stuff even my closest friends don’t know because I chose to keep it to myself, it’s very private and scary.
It’s not fair to assume things, even about your friends, and just say they lead a “normal” life so obviously everything is okay. Trust me, the rape effected them. Just because you get married and hold down a job doesn’t mean everything is a-okay.